################################################ Subj: I have scientific Proof ants love vinegar chips Date: 22-Sep-00 14:52:53 Pacific Daylight Time From: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan) To: editor@liberator.net, plasma@worldnet.att.net CC: DWise1@aol.com The ants invaded my vinegar chips Bill! Have you ever noticed that ants love junk food? They bypassed my carrots, and went right for the viengar chips. Maybe we are more closely related to ants than we care to think.......kinda makes you wonder huh? >From: "Mark" >To: >CC: , >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to >you >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:21:54 -0500 > >I wouldn't bore my worst enemy with Morgan's pro-religious tripe. > >Mark >The Liberator >E-Mail: editor@liberator.net >Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: .. > To: Mark > Cc: DWise1@aol.com ; billyjack1@hotmail.com > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 10:28 AM > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to >you > > > Buddy!!! Come to the party!!!! Bring your family :) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mark > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net > Cc: DWise1@aol.com ; billyjack1@hotmail.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 5:52 PM > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer >to you > > > If it's possible for fictional characters to love... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: .. > To: Bill Morgan ; DWise1@aol.com > Cc: editor@liberator.net > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:50 AM > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >offer to you > > > Break bread and become friends!!!! It is amazing what a cup of pop >and piece of pizza can accomplish! Jesus Loves You! > Bill > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Morgan > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; DWise1@aol.com > Cc: editor@liberator.net > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:56 PM > Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >offer to you > > > Bill, good point, I offered to meet Mr Wise for food and drink >many times > and have been rejected. You know how much I hate typing. > > Mr Wise, lets meet and eat! :) > > > >From: "Bill Bequette" > >To: > >CC: , > >Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >offer to > >you > >Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 16:27:55 -0700 > > > >Sorry, > >I didn't see the explanation below when I sent the other email. >Well if > >Bill does not agree with your viewpoint or seems to have >slandered your > >name > >it may be because discussions about religion are a very emotional >topic and > >even if you were correct you could not ask him to relinquish his >"lifes > >values". You may be asking him to relinquish everything that he >believes > >in > >i.e. his entire personality and vice versa. I don't believe much >is > >accomplished in discussing religion, or politics. Neither party >will ever > >agree with the other in most cases. I am not refuting that I >believe in > >God > >by the above or that you or Bill are correct(I just don't have >the time to > >review all your emails) just that some issues are better left >alone if the > >goal is to convert the other based on the discussion at hand. >Maybe you > >should all get together and have a pizza and chill a little. I >wish you > >all > >well. Take Care, Bill B. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: DWise1@aol.com [mailto:DWise1@aol.com] > > > Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 2:56 PM > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net > > > Cc: dwise1@aol.com; editor@liberator.net; >billyjack1@hotmail.com > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I >now offer to > > > you > > > > > > > > > Bill B., I understand that Bill Morgan (Bill M.) is your >friend, > > > but I would hope that that friendship would not prevent you >from > > > seeking the truth. I am not asking you to side with me >against > > > your friend, but rather that you side with the cause of > > > determining the truth of this matter. From my own >fundamentalist > > > Christian training, I remember being taught that Christians at >to > > > serve the God of Truth, which Bill has echoed in his published > > > writings by telling proselytization trainees that they serve > > > Truth. Unless fundamentalist Christian thought has changed > > > radically in the past few decades (besides the heavy > > > politization), I would expect you to also want to serve Truth. > > > That is all that I ask, that you honor and apply those >Christian values. > > > > > > In order to serve Truth, the facts must be examined. That is >why > > > I had CC:'d all those messages to you, so that you could learn > > > something about what the situation here really is. That is >also > > > why I told you where you could find copies of the >correspondence > > > between Bill and me, so you could see for yourself what had >been > > > said and what was going on. > > > > > > Bill misled you to believe that this was a disagreement over > > > world-views and that I was closing my eyes to the facts. I am > > > truly sorry to have to tell you this, but Bill lied to you. > > > World views had not had a chance to enter into the discussion. > > > And I have steadfastly insisted that we examine the facts >whereas > > > Bill has steadfastly refused to and is willfully preventing >our > > > examination of the facts. > > > > > > No, what the disagreement is over is that Bill has > > > libelled/slandered me and I am trying to resolve that matter. >He > > > has made several false accusations against me, saying that I >had > > > said or that I believe various horrible things. I am sure >that I > > > had never said such things to Bill or about Bill in print. I > > > have repeatedly asked Bill to substantiate his accusations, at > > > the very least he needs to tell me what I had said, as close >as > > > he can remember it. Bill steadfastly refuses. Until he >provides > > > that information, we cannot know which messages to examine in > > > order to arrive at the truth. > > > > > > In order to arrive at the truth in this matter, we need to > > > examine the facts, ie, what does Bill think I had said and >what > > > had I actually written? I have repeatedly called for >examination > > > of the facts and Bill has steadfastly ignored those requests. > > > Since I find it impossible to believe that he could have >missed > > > over 20 very clear requests (about 27 now, if we include > > > references to those requests), Bill must be withholding his > > > information willfully. That would mean that Bill is willfully > > > opposing the Truth. Is that how a Christian is supposed to >behave? > > > > > > As I said, I am not asking you to side with me against Bill, >but > > > rather that you side with the Truth. I have just repeated to >you > > > what I see the situation as being. You can read the actual > > > transcript to see whether I am being truthful or Bill is. Or > > > neither of us. > > > > > > In either case, we still need to resolve this matter. > > > Unfortunately, Bill is being intransigent. We need help. > > > > > > The actual role that I would like you to take is to try to > > > convince Bill to relinguish his information so that we can > > > finally examine the facts. What does he think I said to >insult > > > his wife? What "very nasty names" does he think I called him? > > > At the end of this message, I will repeat the list of >accusations > > > Bill made against me; at least he confirmed that he had indeed > > > made those accusations. > > > > > > If you are unsuccessful in that endeavor, then at least try to > > > get Bill to explain to you why he refuses to divulge that > > > information. Please remind him that if I had truly done the > > > things that he had accused me of, then we would find them >right > > > there in the record. > > > > > > Then if he refuses to give you that explanation, please ask he > > > why he is afraid to have the facts examined in this case. > > > > > > Personally, I believe that Bill Morgan sees this mess as one >big > > > "rabbit trail" that he wants to milk for all that he can. As > > > long as we are mired in this mess, we cannot have a meaningful > > > discussion. About three years of correspondence with Bill has > > > taught me that he is very evasive and will do almost anything >he > > > can to avoid having a meaningful discussion. Even break one >of > > > the Ten Commandments by bearing false witness. > > > > > > A list of a few of the false accusations Bill Morgan has made > > > against me and refuses to substantiate follows: > > > > > > 1. Having conducted "bigoted attacks on [him] and [his] wife" > > > > > > 2. Thinking he is "some evil wicked person out to destroy >society". > > > > > > 3. Thinking he is "wacked for beleiving in God". > > > > > > 4. "[P]ersonally insulting [him] on the level of a name >calling > > > 2nd grader." > > > > > > 5. "[I]nsulting [his] wife and [him]. > > > > > > 6. That my wife and I had labelled him and his wife as evil. > > > > > > 7. Calling him "very nasty names." > > > > > > 8. That I had told him "what [my] wife thought of those who > > > beleive in Gid". > > > > > > 9. That I would think he and his wife "are evil and wicked, >the > > > world's most sinister people". > > > > > > 10. That I refuse to meet him because of his beliefs. > > > > > > 11. That I sent electronically "many nasty words that were >anti > > > religious". > > > > > > Bill needs to either substantiate these accusations or else > > > acknowledge that they are false and offer a most sincere >apology > > > to all parties for having made those accusations and >particularly > > > for having prevented the timely resolution of this matter. > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile >at > http://profiles.msn.com. > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-zc02.mx.aol.com (rly-zc02.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.2]) by air-zc04.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.3) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 17:52:52 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (f292.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.240.86]) by rly-zc02.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 17:52:28 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 14:52:27 -0700 Received: from 152.163.207.197 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:52:27 GMT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.207.197] From: "Bill Morgan" To: editor@liberator.net, plasma@worldnet.att.net Cc: DWise1@aol.com Subject: I have scientific Proof ants love vinegar chips Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:52:27 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Sep 2000 21:52:27.0766 (UTC) FILETIME=[66388160:01C024DF] ################################################ Subj: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to you Date: 22-Sep-00 19:30:22 Pacific Daylight Time From: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan) To: plasma@worldnet.att.net, editor@liberator.net, DWise1@aol.com I would love to relax with our new friends! Go Jaguars! Wise/Liberal.....we get a 6 foot long sub sandwich and have a crazy time....come on by! >From: ".." >To: "Bill Morgan" , , > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to >you >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:26:05 -0700 > >Hey that would be cool! We should all get together and party! We can get >together when a good football game is on and eat chips and salsa. Your dog >is always trying to mooch the chips you nut!!! Did you teach her that? >Let's do it!!!!! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Morgan > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; editor@liberator.net ; DWise1@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 8:15 PM > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to >you > > > Bill.....mi casa es su casa/ We love to open up our house and warmly > welcome some of our friends (as you know our humble digs could not house >all > of our friends...remember my birthday party? > > I hope to party with Mr Wise and Mr Liberal.net! > > > >From: ".." > >To: "Bill Morgan" , , > > > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer >to > >you > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 08:49:19 -0700 > > > >Bill of course. I can't thank you enough for the last party you >invited me > >to with my wife. What a blast! Are you gonna have a great spread of >food > >again? Your wife is the best cook. The huge TV for the football games >is > >way cool. Can I borrow it?? Thanks for all the great parties! > >Take Care, Bill!!!!! > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Bill Morgan > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; editor@liberator.net ; DWise1@aol.com > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:58 PM > > Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >offer to > >you > > > > > > Are you going to be able to come to my Monday Night Football Party >Bill? > > > > > > >From: "Bill Bequette" > > >To: "Mark" , > > >CC: > > >Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >offer > >to > > >you > > >Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 12:45:26 -0700 > > > > > >Well good luck to you all. I have kids, am married, worship God, >have > >a > > >job, maintain a house and a lot of other responsibilities so I wish >you > >all > > >well but I really don't want to take part anymore in this >discussion > >due to > > >time constraints. > > >Adios! Bill > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Mark [mailto:editor@liberator.net] > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2000 6:55 AM > > > > To: Bill Bequette; DWise1@aol.com > > > > Cc: billyjack1@hotmail.com > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now > >offer to > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill Bequette , you wrote: > > > > > > > > "...even if you were correct you could not ask him to relinquish > > > > his 'lifes > > > > values'. You may be asking him to relinquish everything that he > > > > believes in > > > > i.e. his entire personality and vice versa." > > > > > > > > If Morgan's personality and thought structure was rooted in > > > > maintaining the > > > > truth, their might be a short moment when he rejects the truth >due > >to > > >ego > > > > but then he must come around. > > > > > > > > "I don't believe much is accomplished in discussing religion, or > > > > politics." > > > > > > > > This statement is completely false and it can be considered to >be > > > > anti-American. Our society is based on open dialogue and a free > > > > exchange of > > > > information even and it pertains to philosophical discussion as >well > >as > > > > current events. What you suggest is that we not talk about >issues > >and > > > > opinions which would certainly do our society greater harm >because > >your > > > > status quo model would cause our society to degenerate past the > >brink of > > > > calm discussion and enter into extremism to accomplish personal > >goals > > >over > > > > group harmony. > > > > > > > > "Neither party will ever agree with the other in most cases." > > > > > > > > Who says that the parties involved have to agree? Truth is a > > > > difficult end > > > > but the journey is as important as the final destination. > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > The Liberator > > > > E-Mail: editor@liberator.net > > > > Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: DWise1@aol.com [mailto:DWise1@aol.com] > > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 2:56 PM > > > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net > > > > > Cc: dwise1@aol.com; editor@liberator.net; >billyjack1@hotmail.com > > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I >now > >offer > > >to > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill B., I understand that Bill Morgan (Bill M.) is your >friend, > > > > > but I would hope that that friendship would not prevent you >from > > > > > seeking the truth. I am not asking you to side with me >against > > > > > your friend, but rather that you side with the cause of > > > > > determining the truth of this matter. From my own >fundamentalist > > > > > Christian training, I remember being taught that Christians at >to > > > > > serve the God of Truth, which Bill has echoed in his published > > > > > writings by telling proselytization trainees that they serve > > > > > Truth. Unless fundamentalist Christian thought has changed > > > > > radically in the past few decades (besides the heavy > > > > > politization), I would expect you to also want to serve Truth. > > > > > That is all that I ask, that you honor and apply those >Christian > > >values. > > > > > > > > > > In order to serve Truth, the facts must be examined. That is >why > > > > > I had CC:'d all those messages to you, so that you could learn > > > > > something about what the situation here really is. That is >also > > > > > why I told you where you could find copies of the >correspondence > > > > > between Bill and me, so you could see for yourself what had >been > > > > > said and what was going on. > > > > > > > > > > Bill misled you to believe that this was a disagreement over > > > > > world-views and that I was closing my eyes to the facts. I am > > > > > truly sorry to have to tell you this, but Bill lied to you. > > > > > World views had not had a chance to enter into the discussion. > > > > > And I have steadfastly insisted that we examine the facts >whereas > > > > > Bill has steadfastly refused to and is willfully preventing >our > > > > > examination of the facts. > > > > > > > > > > No, what the disagreement is over is that Bill has > > > > > libelled/slandered me and I am trying to resolve that matter. >He > > > > > has made several false accusations against me, saying that I >had > > > > > said or that I believe various horrible things. I am sure >that I > > > > > had never said such things to Bill or about Bill in print. I > > > > > have repeatedly asked Bill to substantiate his accusations, at > > > > > the very least he needs to tell me what I had said, as close >as > > > > > he can remember it. Bill steadfastly refuses. Until he >provides > > > > > that information, we cannot know which messages to examine in > > > > > order to arrive at the truth. > > > > > > > > > > In order to arrive at the truth in this matter, we need to > > > > > examine the facts, ie, what does Bill think I had said and >what > > > > > had I actually written? I have repeatedly called for >examination > > > > > of the facts and Bill has steadfastly ignored those requests. > > > > > Since I find it impossible to believe that he could have >missed > > > > > over 20 very clear requests (about 27 now, if we include > > > > > references to those requests), Bill must be withholding his > > > > > information willfully. That would mean that Bill is willfully > > > > > opposing the Truth. Is that how a Christian is supposed to > >behave? > > > > > > > > > > As I said, I am not asking you to side with me against Bill, >but > > > > > rather that you side with the Truth. I have just repeated to >you > > > > > what I see the situation as being. You can read the actual > > > > > transcript to see whether I am being truthful or Bill is. Or > > > > > neither of us. > > > > > > > > > > In either case, we still need to resolve this matter. > > > > > Unfortunately, Bill is being intransigent. We need help. > > > > > > > > > > The actual role that I would like you to take is to try to > > > > > convince Bill to relinguish his information so that we can > > > > > finally examine the facts. What does he think I said to >insult > > > > > his wife? What "very nasty names" does he think I called him? > > > > > At the end of this message, I will repeat the list of >accusations > > > > > Bill made against me; at least he confirmed that he had indeed > > > > > made those accusations. > > > > > > > > > > If you are unsuccessful in that endeavor, then at least try to > > > > > get Bill to explain to you why he refuses to divulge that > > > > > information. Please remind him that if I had truly done the > > > > > things that he had accused me of, then we would find them >right > > > > > there in the record. > > > > > > > > > > Then if he refuses to give you that explanation, please ask he > > > > > why he is afraid to have the facts examined in this case. > > > > > > > > > > Personally, I believe that Bill Morgan sees this mess as one >big > > > > > "rabbit trail" that he wants to milk for all that he can. As > > > > > long as we are mired in this mess, we cannot have a meaningful > > > > > discussion. About three years of correspondence with Bill has > > > > > taught me that he is very evasive and will do almost anything >he > > > > > can to avoid having a meaningful discussion. Even break one >of > > > > > the Ten Commandments by bearing false witness. > > > > > > > > > > A list of a few of the false accusations Bill Morgan has made > > > > > against me and refuses to substantiate follows: > > > > > > > > > > 1. Having conducted "bigoted attacks on [him] and [his] wife" > > > > > > > > > > 2. Thinking he is "some evil wicked person out to destroy > >society". > > > > > > > > > > 3. Thinking he is "wacked for beleiving in God". > > > > > > > > > > 4. "[P]ersonally insulting [him] on the level of a name >calling > > > > > 2nd grader." > > > > > > > > > > 5. "[I]nsulting [his] wife and [him]. > > > > > > > > > > 6. That my wife and I had labelled him and his wife as evil. > > > > > > > > > > 7. Calling him "very nasty names." > > > > > > > > > > 8. That I had told him "what [my] wife thought of those who > > > > > beleive in Gid". > > > > > > > > > > 9. That I would think he and his wife "are evil and wicked, >the > > > > > world's most sinister people". > > > > > > > > > > 10. That I refuse to meet him because of his beliefs. > > > > > > > > > > 11. That I sent electronically "many nasty words that were >anti > > > > > religious". > > > > > > > > > > Bill needs to either substantiate these accusations or else > > > > > acknowledge that they are false and offer a most sincere >apology > > > > > to all parties for having made those accusations and >particularly > > > > > for having prevented the timely resolution of this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-yb01.mx.aol.com (rly-yb01.mail.aol.com [172.18.146.1]) by air-yb01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.3) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:30:22 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (f156.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.156]) by rly-yb01.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:29:40 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 19:29:40 -0700 Received: from 152.163.206.204 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 23 Sep 2000 02:29:39 GMT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.206.204] From: "Bill Morgan" To: plasma@worldnet.att.net, editor@liberator.net, DWise1@aol.com Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to you Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 02:29:39 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Sep 2000 02:29:40.0076 (UTC) FILETIME=[1FD99AC0:01C02506] ################################################ Subj: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? Date: 22-Sep-00 19:32:31 Pacific Daylight Time From: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan) To: plasma@worldnet.att.net, editor@liberator.net CC: DWise1@aol.com Bill, you have seen me play trivial pursuit.....maybe I should spot you three nuts a few pieces of pie to make it fair! Bill "King of Trivial Pursuit" Morgan! I am the King! But I stink at TV questions! >From: ".." >To: "Mark" , "Bill Morgan" >CC: >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:27:21 -0700 > >Everybody can bring their wives also. We can play trivial persuit also. >Each team is two couples? Are we all game!? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mark > To: Bill Morgan ; plasma@worldnet.att.net > Cc: DWise1@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 8:16 PM > Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > Have you noticed all of this exorcism hype? First the Pope tries to > exorcise a woman but fails. Next a priest is trained as an exorcist. >Then > the film The Exorcist will be re-released soon. Coincidence? Nah.... > > People love fiction. It's entertaining.... > > Mark > The Liberator > E-Mail: editor@liberator.net > Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Morgan > To: ; > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:08 PM > Subject: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > We will have a 6 foot long submarine sandwich and chips and stuff. >Please > bring a liter bottle of your choice. > > > >From: "Mark" > >To: > >CC: , > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer >to > >you > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:52:56 -0500 > > > >If it's possible for fictional characters to love... > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: .. > > To: Bill Morgan ; DWise1@aol.com > > Cc: editor@liberator.net > > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:50 AM > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >offer to > >you > > > > > > Break bread and become friends!!!! It is amazing what a cup of pop >and > >piece of pizza can accomplish! Jesus Loves You! > > Bill > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Bill Morgan > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; DWise1@aol.com > > Cc: editor@liberator.net > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:56 PM > > Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >offer > >to you > > > > > > Bill, good point, I offered to meet Mr Wise for food and drink >many > >times > > and have been rejected. You know how much I hate typing. > > > > Mr Wise, lets meet and eat! :) > > > > > > >From: "Bill Bequette" > > >To: > > >CC: , > > >Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >offer > >to > > >you > > >Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 16:27:55 -0700 > > > > > >Sorry, > > >I didn't see the explanation below when I sent the other email. >Well > >if > > >Bill does not agree with your viewpoint or seems to have >slandered > >your > > >name > > >it may be because discussions about religion are a very emotional > >topic and > > >even if you were correct you could not ask him to relinquish his > >"lifes > > >values". You may be asking him to relinquish everything that he > >believes > > >in > > >i.e. his entire personality and vice versa. I don't believe much >is > > >accomplished in discussing religion, or politics. Neither party >will > >ever > > >agree with the other in most cases. I am not refuting that I >believe > >in > > >God > > >by the above or that you or Bill are correct(I just don't have >the > >time to > > >review all your emails) just that some issues are better left >alone > >if the > > >goal is to convert the other based on the discussion at hand. >Maybe > >you > > >should all get together and have a pizza and chill a little. I >wish > >you > > >all > > >well. Take Care, Bill B. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: DWise1@aol.com [mailto:DWise1@aol.com] > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 2:56 PM > > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net > > > > Cc: dwise1@aol.com; editor@liberator.net; >billyjack1@hotmail.com > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I >now > >offer to > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill B., I understand that Bill Morgan (Bill M.) is your >friend, > > > > but I would hope that that friendship would not prevent you >from > > > > seeking the truth. I am not asking you to side with me >against > > > > your friend, but rather that you side with the cause of > > > > determining the truth of this matter. From my own >fundamentalist > > > > Christian training, I remember being taught that Christians at >to > > > > serve the God of Truth, which Bill has echoed in his published > > > > writings by telling proselytization trainees that they serve > > > > Truth. Unless fundamentalist Christian thought has changed > > > > radically in the past few decades (besides the heavy > > > > politization), I would expect you to also want to serve Truth. > > > > That is all that I ask, that you honor and apply those >Christian > >values. > > > > > > > > In order to serve Truth, the facts must be examined. That is >why > > > > I had CC:'d all those messages to you, so that you could learn > > > > something about what the situation here really is. That is >also > > > > why I told you where you could find copies of the >correspondence > > > > between Bill and me, so you could see for yourself what had >been > > > > said and what was going on. > > > > > > > > Bill misled you to believe that this was a disagreement over > > > > world-views and that I was closing my eyes to the facts. I am > > > > truly sorry to have to tell you this, but Bill lied to you. > > > > World views had not had a chance to enter into the discussion. > > > > And I have steadfastly insisted that we examine the facts >whereas > > > > Bill has steadfastly refused to and is willfully preventing >our > > > > examination of the facts. > > > > > > > > No, what the disagreement is over is that Bill has > > > > libelled/slandered me and I am trying to resolve that matter. >He > > > > has made several false accusations against me, saying that I >had > > > > said or that I believe various horrible things. I am sure >that I > > > > had never said such things to Bill or about Bill in print. I > > > > have repeatedly asked Bill to substantiate his accusations, at > > > > the very least he needs to tell me what I had said, as close >as > > > > he can remember it. Bill steadfastly refuses. Until he >provides > > > > that information, we cannot know which messages to examine in > > > > order to arrive at the truth. > > > > > > > > In order to arrive at the truth in this matter, we need to > > > > examine the facts, ie, what does Bill think I had said and >what > > > > had I actually written? I have repeatedly called for >examination > > > > of the facts and Bill has steadfastly ignored those requests. > > > > Since I find it impossible to believe that he could have >missed > > > > over 20 very clear requests (about 27 now, if we include > > > > references to those requests), Bill must be withholding his > > > > information willfully. That would mean that Bill is willfully > > > > opposing the Truth. Is that how a Christian is supposed to > >behave? > > > > > > > > As I said, I am not asking you to side with me against Bill, >but > > > > rather that you side with the Truth. I have just repeated to >you > > > > what I see the situation as being. You can read the actual > > > > transcript to see whether I am being truthful or Bill is. Or > > > > neither of us. > > > > > > > > In either case, we still need to resolve this matter. > > > > Unfortunately, Bill is being intransigent. We need help. > > > > > > > > The actual role that I would like you to take is to try to > > > > convince Bill to relinguish his information so that we can > > > > finally examine the facts. What does he think I said to >insult > > > > his wife? What "very nasty names" does he think I called him? > > > > At the end of this message, I will repeat the list of >accusations > > > > Bill made against me; at least he confirmed that he had indeed > > > > made those accusations. > > > > > > > > If you are unsuccessful in that endeavor, then at least try to > > > > get Bill to explain to you why he refuses to divulge that > > > > information. Please remind him that if I had truly done the > > > > things that he had accused me of, then we would find them >right > > > > there in the record. > > > > > > > > Then if he refuses to give you that explanation, please ask he > > > > why he is afraid to have the facts examined in this case. > > > > > > > > Personally, I believe that Bill Morgan sees this mess as one >big > > > > "rabbit trail" that he wants to milk for all that he can. As > > > > long as we are mired in this mess, we cannot have a meaningful > > > > discussion. About three years of correspondence with Bill has > > > > taught me that he is very evasive and will do almost anything >he > > > > can to avoid having a meaningful discussion. Even break one >of > > > > the Ten Commandments by bearing false witness. > > > > > > > > A list of a few of the false accusations Bill Morgan has made > > > > against me and refuses to substantiate follows: > > > > > > > > 1. Having conducted "bigoted attacks on [him] and [his] wife" > > > > > > > > 2. Thinking he is "some evil wicked person out to destroy > >society". > > > > > > > > 3. Thinking he is "wacked for beleiving in God". > > > > > > > > 4. "[P]ersonally insulting [him] on the level of a name >calling > > > > 2nd grader." > > > > > > > > 5. "[I]nsulting [his] wife and [him]. > > > > > > > > 6. That my wife and I had labelled him and his wife as evil. > > > > > > > > 7. Calling him "very nasty names." > > > > > > > > 8. That I had told him "what [my] wife thought of those who > > > > beleive in Gid". > > > > > > > > 9. That I would think he and his wife "are evil and wicked, >the > > > > world's most sinister people". > > > > > > > > 10. That I refuse to meet him because of his beliefs. > > > > > > > > 11. That I sent electronically "many nasty words that were >anti > > > > religious". > > > > > > > > Bill needs to either substantiate these accusations or else > > > > acknowledge that they are false and offer a most sincere >apology > > > > to all parties for having made those accusations and >particularly > > > > for having prevented the timely resolution of this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile >at > > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-yc03.mx.aol.com (rly-yc03.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.35]) by air-yc02.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.3) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:32:31 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (f52.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.52]) by rly-yc03.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:31:44 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 19:31:44 -0700 Received: from 152.163.206.204 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 23 Sep 2000 02:31:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.206.204] From: "Bill Morgan" To: plasma@worldnet.att.net, editor@liberator.net Cc: DWise1@aol.com Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 02:31:43 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Sep 2000 02:31:44.0209 (UTC) FILETIME=[69D6CC10:01C02506] ################################################ Subj: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to you Date: 22-Sep-00 19:34:14 Pacific Daylight Time From: editor@liberator.net (Mark) To: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan), plasma@worldnet.att.net, DWise1@aol.com I'll be over but don't wait for me. = ) Take a look at the newest article to hit The Liberator: 'Does Jesus Exist and Does it Matter?' Mark The Liberator E-Mail: editor@liberator.net Web Site: http://liberator.net/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Morgan To: ; ; Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 9:29 PM Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to you I would love to relax with our new friends! Go Jaguars! Wise/Liberal.....we get a 6 foot long sub sandwich and have a crazy time....come on by! >From: ".." >To: "Bill Morgan" , , > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to >you >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:26:05 -0700 > >Hey that would be cool! We should all get together and party! We can get >together when a good football game is on and eat chips and salsa. Your dog >is always trying to mooch the chips you nut!!! Did you teach her that? >Let's do it!!!!! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Morgan > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; editor@liberator.net ; DWise1@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 8:15 PM > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to >you > > > Bill.....mi casa es su casa/ We love to open up our house and warmly > welcome some of our friends (as you know our humble digs could not house >all > of our friends...remember my birthday party? > > I hope to party with Mr Wise and Mr Liberal.net! > > > >From: ".." > >To: "Bill Morgan" , , > > > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer >to > >you > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 08:49:19 -0700 > > > >Bill of course. I can't thank you enough for the last party you >invited me > >to with my wife. What a blast! Are you gonna have a great spread of >food > >again? Your wife is the best cook. The huge TV for the football games >is > >way cool. Can I borrow it?? Thanks for all the great parties! > >Take Care, Bill!!!!! > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Bill Morgan > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; editor@liberator.net ; DWise1@aol.com > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:58 PM > > Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >offer to > >you > > > > > > Are you going to be able to come to my Monday Night Football Party >Bill? > > > > > > >From: "Bill Bequette" > > >To: "Mark" , > > >CC: > > >Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >offer > >to > > >you > > >Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 12:45:26 -0700 > > > > > >Well good luck to you all. I have kids, am married, worship God, >have > >a > > >job, maintain a house and a lot of other responsibilities so I wish >you > >all > > >well but I really don't want to take part anymore in this >discussion > >due to > > >time constraints. > > >Adios! Bill > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Mark [mailto:editor@liberator.net] > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2000 6:55 AM > > > > To: Bill Bequette; DWise1@aol.com > > > > Cc: billyjack1@hotmail.com > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now > >offer to > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill Bequette , you wrote: > > > > > > > > "...even if you were correct you could not ask him to relinquish > > > > his 'lifes > > > > values'. You may be asking him to relinquish everything that he > > > > believes in > > > > i.e. his entire personality and vice versa." > > > > > > > > If Morgan's personality and thought structure was rooted in > > > > maintaining the > > > > truth, their might be a short moment when he rejects the truth >due > >to > > >ego > > > > but then he must come around. > > > > > > > > "I don't believe much is accomplished in discussing religion, or > > > > politics." > > > > > > > > This statement is completely false and it can be considered to >be > > > > anti-American. Our society is based on open dialogue and a free > > > > exchange of > > > > information even and it pertains to philosophical discussion as >well > >as > > > > current events. What you suggest is that we not talk about >issues > >and > > > > opinions which would certainly do our society greater harm >because > >your > > > > status quo model would cause our society to degenerate past the > >brink of > > > > calm discussion and enter into extremism to accomplish personal > >goals > > >over > > > > group harmony. > > > > > > > > "Neither party will ever agree with the other in most cases." > > > > > > > > Who says that the parties involved have to agree? Truth is a > > > > difficult end > > > > but the journey is as important as the final destination. > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > The Liberator > > > > E-Mail: editor@liberator.net > > > > Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: DWise1@aol.com [mailto:DWise1@aol.com] > > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 2:56 PM > > > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net > > > > > Cc: dwise1@aol.com; editor@liberator.net; >billyjack1@hotmail.com > > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I >now > >offer > > >to > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill B., I understand that Bill Morgan (Bill M.) is your >friend, > > > > > but I would hope that that friendship would not prevent you >from > > > > > seeking the truth. I am not asking you to side with me >against > > > > > your friend, but rather that you side with the cause of > > > > > determining the truth of this matter. From my own >fundamentalist > > > > > Christian training, I remember being taught that Christians at >to > > > > > serve the God of Truth, which Bill has echoed in his published > > > > > writings by telling proselytization trainees that they serve > > > > > Truth. Unless fundamentalist Christian thought has changed > > > > > radically in the past few decades (besides the heavy > > > > > politization), I would expect you to also want to serve Truth. > > > > > That is all that I ask, that you honor and apply those >Christian > > >values. > > > > > > > > > > In order to serve Truth, the facts must be examined. That is >why > > > > > I had CC:'d all those messages to you, so that you could learn > > > > > something about what the situation here really is. That is >also > > > > > why I told you where you could find copies of the >correspondence > > > > > between Bill and me, so you could see for yourself what had >been > > > > > said and what was going on. > > > > > > > > > > Bill misled you to believe that this was a disagreement over > > > > > world-views and that I was closing my eyes to the facts. I am > > > > > truly sorry to have to tell you this, but Bill lied to you. > > > > > World views had not had a chance to enter into the discussion. > > > > > And I have steadfastly insisted that we examine the facts >whereas > > > > > Bill has steadfastly refused to and is willfully preventing >our > > > > > examination of the facts. > > > > > > > > > > No, what the disagreement is over is that Bill has > > > > > libelled/slandered me and I am trying to resolve that matter. >He > > > > > has made several false accusations against me, saying that I >had > > > > > said or that I believe various horrible things. I am sure >that I > > > > > had never said such things to Bill or about Bill in print. I > > > > > have repeatedly asked Bill to substantiate his accusations, at > > > > > the very least he needs to tell me what I had said, as close >as > > > > > he can remember it. Bill steadfastly refuses. Until he >provides > > > > > that information, we cannot know which messages to examine in > > > > > order to arrive at the truth. > > > > > > > > > > In order to arrive at the truth in this matter, we need to > > > > > examine the facts, ie, what does Bill think I had said and >what > > > > > had I actually written? I have repeatedly called for >examination > > > > > of the facts and Bill has steadfastly ignored those requests. > > > > > Since I find it impossible to believe that he could have >missed > > > > > over 20 very clear requests (about 27 now, if we include > > > > > references to those requests), Bill must be withholding his > > > > > information willfully. That would mean that Bill is willfully > > > > > opposing the Truth. Is that how a Christian is supposed to > >behave? > > > > > > > > > > As I said, I am not asking you to side with me against Bill, >but > > > > > rather that you side with the Truth. I have just repeated to >you > > > > > what I see the situation as being. You can read the actual > > > > > transcript to see whether I am being truthful or Bill is. Or > > > > > neither of us. > > > > > > > > > > In either case, we still need to resolve this matter. > > > > > Unfortunately, Bill is being intransigent. We need help. > > > > > > > > > > The actual role that I would like you to take is to try to > > > > > convince Bill to relinguish his information so that we can > > > > > finally examine the facts. What does he think I said to >insult > > > > > his wife? What "very nasty names" does he think I called him? > > > > > At the end of this message, I will repeat the list of >accusations > > > > > Bill made against me; at least he confirmed that he had indeed > > > > > made those accusations. > > > > > > > > > > If you are unsuccessful in that endeavor, then at least try to > > > > > get Bill to explain to you why he refuses to divulge that > > > > > information. Please remind him that if I had truly done the > > > > > things that he had accused me of, then we would find them >right > > > > > there in the record. > > > > > > > > > > Then if he refuses to give you that explanation, please ask he > > > > > why he is afraid to have the facts examined in this case. > > > > > > > > > > Personally, I believe that Bill Morgan sees this mess as one >big > > > > > "rabbit trail" that he wants to milk for all that he can. As > > > > > long as we are mired in this mess, we cannot have a meaningful > > > > > discussion. About three years of correspondence with Bill has > > > > > taught me that he is very evasive and will do almost anything >he > > > > > can to avoid having a meaningful discussion. Even break one >of > > > > > the Ten Commandments by bearing false witness. > > > > > > > > > > A list of a few of the false accusations Bill Morgan has made > > > > > against me and refuses to substantiate follows: > > > > > > > > > > 1. Having conducted "bigoted attacks on [him] and [his] wife" > > > > > > > > > > 2. Thinking he is "some evil wicked person out to destroy > >society". > > > > > > > > > > 3. Thinking he is "wacked for beleiving in God". > > > > > > > > > > 4. "[P]ersonally insulting [him] on the level of a name >calling > > > > > 2nd grader." > > > > > > > > > > 5. "[I]nsulting [his] wife and [him]. > > > > > > > > > > 6. That my wife and I had labelled him and his wife as evil. > > > > > > > > > > 7. Calling him "very nasty names." > > > > > > > > > > 8. That I had told him "what [my] wife thought of those who > > > > > beleive in Gid". > > > > > > > > > > 9. That I would think he and his wife "are evil and wicked, >the > > > > > world's most sinister people". > > > > > > > > > > 10. That I refuse to meet him because of his beliefs. > > > > > > > > > > 11. That I sent electronically "many nasty words that were >anti > > > > > religious". > > > > > > > > > > Bill needs to either substantiate these accusations or else > > > > > acknowledge that they are false and offer a most sincere >apology > > > > > to all parties for having made those accusations and >particularly > > > > > for having prevented the timely resolution of this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-zb02.mx.aol.com (rly-zb02.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.2]) by air-zb02.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.3) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:34:14 -0400 Received: from uucphost.mcs.net (kitten2.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by rly-zb02.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:33:47 -0400 Received: from liber8r (liber8r.pr.mcs.net [199.3.42.5]) by uucphost.mcs.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA26192; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:33:41 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from editor@liberator.net) Message-ID: <003d01c02506$e941a9c0$052a03c7@liber8r> From: "Mark" To: "Bill Morgan" , , References: Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to you Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:35:16 -0500 Organization: n/a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 ################################################ Subj: How Could a Loving God allow it to Rain on My Birthday? Date: 22-Sep-00 19:34:23 Pacific Daylight Time From: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan) To: plasma@worldnet.att.net, editor@liberator.net CC: DWise1@aol.com Mr Wise and the Lifberal have not confirmed yet. You know Bill, these guys are so wild they are probably going to vote for that Pro-Gun guy George W. Bush! The W stands for Winchester I think. >From: ".." >To: "Bill Morgan" , >CC: >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:27:50 -0700 > >I will bring 7-up because I no like theee caffeine! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Morgan > To: editor@liberator.net ; plasma@worldnet.att.net > Cc: DWise1@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 8:08 PM > Subject: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > We will have a 6 foot long submarine sandwich and chips and stuff. >Please > bring a liter bottle of your choice. > > > >From: "Mark" > >To: > >CC: , > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer >to > >you > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:52:56 -0500 > > > >If it's possible for fictional characters to love... > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: .. > > To: Bill Morgan ; DWise1@aol.com > > Cc: editor@liberator.net > > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:50 AM > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >offer to > >you > > > > > > Break bread and become friends!!!! It is amazing what a cup of pop >and > >piece of pizza can accomplish! Jesus Loves You! > > Bill > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Bill Morgan > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; DWise1@aol.com > > Cc: editor@liberator.net > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:56 PM > > Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >offer > >to you > > > > > > Bill, good point, I offered to meet Mr Wise for food and drink >many > >times > > and have been rejected. You know how much I hate typing. > > > > Mr Wise, lets meet and eat! :) > > > > > > >From: "Bill Bequette" > > >To: > > >CC: , > > >Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >offer > >to > > >you > > >Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 16:27:55 -0700 > > > > > >Sorry, > > >I didn't see the explanation below when I sent the other email. >Well > >if > > >Bill does not agree with your viewpoint or seems to have >slandered > >your > > >name > > >it may be because discussions about religion are a very emotional > >topic and > > >even if you were correct you could not ask him to relinquish his > >"lifes > > >values". You may be asking him to relinquish everything that he > >believes > > >in > > >i.e. his entire personality and vice versa. I don't believe much >is > > >accomplished in discussing religion, or politics. Neither party >will > >ever > > >agree with the other in most cases. I am not refuting that I >believe > >in > > >God > > >by the above or that you or Bill are correct(I just don't have >the > >time to > > >review all your emails) just that some issues are better left >alone > >if the > > >goal is to convert the other based on the discussion at hand. >Maybe > >you > > >should all get together and have a pizza and chill a little. I >wish > >you > > >all > > >well. Take Care, Bill B. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: DWise1@aol.com [mailto:DWise1@aol.com] > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 2:56 PM > > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net > > > > Cc: dwise1@aol.com; editor@liberator.net; >billyjack1@hotmail.com > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I >now > >offer to > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill B., I understand that Bill Morgan (Bill M.) is your >friend, > > > > but I would hope that that friendship would not prevent you >from > > > > seeking the truth. I am not asking you to side with me >against > > > > your friend, but rather that you side with the cause of > > > > determining the truth of this matter. From my own >fundamentalist > > > > Christian training, I remember being taught that Christians at >to > > > > serve the God of Truth, which Bill has echoed in his published > > > > writings by telling proselytization trainees that they serve > > > > Truth. Unless fundamentalist Christian thought has changed > > > > radically in the past few decades (besides the heavy > > > > politization), I would expect you to also want to serve Truth. > > > > That is all that I ask, that you honor and apply those >Christian > >values. > > > > > > > > In order to serve Truth, the facts must be examined. That is >why > > > > I had CC:'d all those messages to you, so that you could learn > > > > something about what the situation here really is. That is >also > > > > why I told you where you could find copies of the >correspondence > > > > between Bill and me, so you could see for yourself what had >been > > > > said and what was going on. > > > > > > > > Bill misled you to believe that this was a disagreement over > > > > world-views and that I was closing my eyes to the facts. I am > > > > truly sorry to have to tell you this, but Bill lied to you. > > > > World views had not had a chance to enter into the discussion. > > > > And I have steadfastly insisted that we examine the facts >whereas > > > > Bill has steadfastly refused to and is willfully preventing >our > > > > examination of the facts. > > > > > > > > No, what the disagreement is over is that Bill has > > > > libelled/slandered me and I am trying to resolve that matter. >He > > > > has made several false accusations against me, saying that I >had > > > > said or that I believe various horrible things. I am sure >that I > > > > had never said such things to Bill or about Bill in print. I > > > > have repeatedly asked Bill to substantiate his accusations, at > > > > the very least he needs to tell me what I had said, as close >as > > > > he can remember it. Bill steadfastly refuses. Until he >provides > > > > that information, we cannot know which messages to examine in > > > > order to arrive at the truth. > > > > > > > > In order to arrive at the truth in this matter, we need to > > > > examine the facts, ie, what does Bill think I had said and >what > > > > had I actually written? I have repeatedly called for >examination > > > > of the facts and Bill has steadfastly ignored those requests. > > > > Since I find it impossible to believe that he could have >missed > > > > over 20 very clear requests (about 27 now, if we include > > > > references to those requests), Bill must be withholding his > > > > information willfully. That would mean that Bill is willfully > > > > opposing the Truth. Is that how a Christian is supposed to > >behave? > > > > > > > > As I said, I am not asking you to side with me against Bill, >but > > > > rather that you side with the Truth. I have just repeated to >you > > > > what I see the situation as being. You can read the actual > > > > transcript to see whether I am being truthful or Bill is. Or > > > > neither of us. > > > > > > > > In either case, we still need to resolve this matter. > > > > Unfortunately, Bill is being intransigent. We need help. > > > > > > > > The actual role that I would like you to take is to try to > > > > convince Bill to relinguish his information so that we can > > > > finally examine the facts. What does he think I said to >insult > > > > his wife? What "very nasty names" does he think I called him? > > > > At the end of this message, I will repeat the list of >accusations > > > > Bill made against me; at least he confirmed that he had indeed > > > > made those accusations. > > > > > > > > If you are unsuccessful in that endeavor, then at least try to > > > > get Bill to explain to you why he refuses to divulge that > > > > information. Please remind him that if I had truly done the > > > > things that he had accused me of, then we would find them >right > > > > there in the record. > > > > > > > > Then if he refuses to give you that explanation, please ask he > > > > why he is afraid to have the facts examined in this case. > > > > > > > > Personally, I believe that Bill Morgan sees this mess as one >big > > > > "rabbit trail" that he wants to milk for all that he can. As > > > > long as we are mired in this mess, we cannot have a meaningful > > > > discussion. About three years of correspondence with Bill has > > > > taught me that he is very evasive and will do almost anything >he > > > > can to avoid having a meaningful discussion. Even break one >of > > > > the Ten Commandments by bearing false witness. > > > > > > > > A list of a few of the false accusations Bill Morgan has made > > > > against me and refuses to substantiate follows: > > > > > > > > 1. Having conducted "bigoted attacks on [him] and [his] wife" > > > > > > > > 2. Thinking he is "some evil wicked person out to destroy > >society". > > > > > > > > 3. Thinking he is "wacked for beleiving in God". > > > > > > > > 4. "[P]ersonally insulting [him] on the level of a name >calling > > > > 2nd grader." > > > > > > > > 5. "[I]nsulting [his] wife and [him]. > > > > > > > > 6. That my wife and I had labelled him and his wife as evil. > > > > > > > > 7. Calling him "very nasty names." > > > > > > > > 8. That I had told him "what [my] wife thought of those who > > > > beleive in Gid". > > > > > > > > 9. That I would think he and his wife "are evil and wicked, >the > > > > world's most sinister people". > > > > > > > > 10. That I refuse to meet him because of his beliefs. > > > > > > > > 11. That I sent electronically "many nasty words that were >anti > > > > religious". > > > > > > > > Bill needs to either substantiate these accusations or else > > > > acknowledge that they are false and offer a most sincere >apology > > > > to all parties for having made those accusations and >particularly > > > > for having prevented the timely resolution of this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile >at > > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-yg03.mx.aol.com (rly-yg03.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.3]) by air-yg01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.3) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:34:23 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (f106.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.106]) by rly-yg03.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:34:10 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 19:34:09 -0700 Received: from 152.163.206.204 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 23 Sep 2000 02:34:09 GMT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.206.204] From: "Bill Morgan" To: plasma@worldnet.att.net, editor@liberator.net Cc: DWise1@aol.com Subject: How Could a Loving God allow it to Rain on My Birthday? Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 02:34:09 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Sep 2000 02:34:09.0404 (UTC) FILETIME=[C061CBC0:01C02506] ################################################ Subj: Zebra Stripes from Mutations? Date: 22-Sep-00 19:36:57 Pacific Daylight Time From: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan) To: plasma@worldnet.att.net, DWise1@aol.com CC: editor@liberator.net Bill, Jen is a big reason you converted. Her love for Jesus really was effective right? I think a smart person could cheat at wheel of fortune on how hard they spin the wheel.....don't you agree? >From: ".." >To: "Bill Morgan" , >CC: >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to >you >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:24:25 -0700 > >What I find so awesome about her is her strength. She helps the weak and >lifts their spirits. I believe she is this way due to her belief in Jesus >Christ! Praise the Lord!!!! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Morgan > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; DWise1@aol.com > Cc: editor@liberator.net > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 8:17 PM > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to >you > > > I told you guys she is nice, you have nothing to fear from her. > > > >From: ".." > >To: "Bill Morgan" , > >CC: > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer >to > >you > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 08:51:48 -0700 > > > >You wife is without a doubt a very nice Christian wife and mother. She >is > >awesome. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Bill Morgan > > To: DWise1@aol.com ; plasma@worldnet.att.net > > Cc: editor@liberator.net > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:52 PM > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >offer to > >you > > > > > > Bill: he refused to meet my wife and I for dinner calling us >negative > >names > > related to our Christian beliefs. > > > > I told Mr Wise I am unlike him that I don't save all the emails. >But I > > forgive him for denegrating our character for being Christians. > > > > Bill, lets resolve this once and for all: what is your opinion of >my > >wife? > > Is she nice? > > > > Mr. Wise: did you see my retraction in my newsletter? > > > > > > >From: DWise1@aol.com > > >To: > > >CC: , , > > > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >offer > >to > > >you > > >Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 17:55:34 EDT > > > > > >Bill B., I understand that Bill Morgan (Bill M.) is your friend, >but I > > >would hope that that friendship would not prevent you from seeking >the > > >truth. I am not asking you to side with me against your friend, >but > >rather > > >that you side with the cause of determining the truth of this >matter. > >From > > >my own fundamentalist Christian training, I remember being taught >that > > >Christians at to serve the God of Truth, which Bill has echoed in >his > > >published writings by telling proselytization trainees that they >serve > > >Truth. Unless fundamentalist Christian thought has changed >radically > >in > > >the past few decades (besides the heavy politization), I would >expect > >you > > >to also want to serve Truth. That is all that I ask, that you >honor > >and > > >apply those Christian values. > > > > > >In order to serve Truth, the facts must be examined. That is why I >had > > >CC:'d all those messages to you, so that you could learn something > >about > > >what the situation here really is. That is also why I told you >where > >you > > >could find copies of the correspondence between Bill and me, so you > >could > > >see for yourself what had been said and what was going on. > > > > > >Bill misled you to believe that this was a disagreement over > >world-views > > >and that I was closing my eyes to the facts. I am truly sorry to >have > >to > > >tell you this, but Bill lied to you. World views had not had a >chance > >to > > >enter into the discussion. And I have steadfastly insisted that we > >examine > > >the facts whereas Bill has steadfastly refused to and is willfully > > >preventing our examination of the facts. > > > > > >No, what the disagreement is over is that Bill has >libelled/slandered > >me > > >and I am trying to resolve that matter. He has made several false > > >accusations against me, saying that I had said or that I believe > >various > > >horrible things. I am sure that I had never said such things to >Bill > >or > > >about Bill in print. I have repeatedly asked Bill to substantiate >his > > >accusations, at the very least he needs to tell me what I had said, >as > > >close as he can remember it. Bill steadfastly refuses. Until he > >provides > > >that information, we cannot know which messages to examine in order >to > > >arrive at the truth. > > > > > >In order to arrive at the truth in this matter, we need to examine >the > > >facts, ie, what does Bill think I had said and what had I actually > >written? > > > I have repeatedly called for examination of the facts and Bill >has > > >steadfastly ignored those requests. Since I find it impossible to > >believe > > >that he could have missed over 20 very clear requests (about 27 >now, if > >we > > >include references to those requests), Bill must be withholding his > > >information willfully. That would mean that Bill is willfully >opposing > >the > > >Truth. Is that how a Christian is supposed to behave? > > > > > >As I said, I am not asking you to side with me against Bill, but >rather > > >that you side with the Truth. I have just repeated to you what I >see > >the > > >situation as being. You can read the actual transcript to see >whether > >I am > > >being truthful or Bill is. Or neither of us. > > > > > >In either case, we still need to resolve this matter. >Unfortunately, > >Bill > > >is being intransigent. We need help. > > > > > >The actual role that I would like you to take is to try to convince > >Bill to > > >relinguish his information so that we can finally examine the >facts. > >What > > >does he think I said to insult his wife? What "very nasty names" >does > >he > > >think I called him? At the end of this message, I will repeat the >list > >of > > >accusations Bill made against me; at least he confirmed that he had > >indeed > > >made those accusations. > > > > > >If you are unsuccessful in that endeavor, then at least try to get >Bill > >to > > >explain to you why he refuses to divulge that information. Please > >remind > > >him that if I had truly done the things that he had accused me of, >then > >we > > >would find them right there in the record. > > > > > >Then if he refuses to give you that explanation, please ask he why >he > >is > > >afraid to have the facts examined in this case. > > > > > >Personally, I believe that Bill Morgan sees this mess as one big > >"rabbit > > >trail" that he wants to milk for all that he can. As long as we >are > >mired > > >in this mess, we cannot have a meaningful discussion. About three > >years of > > >correspondence with Bill has taught me that he is very evasive and >will > >do > > >almost anything he can to avoid having a meaningful discussion. >Even > >break > > >one of the Ten Commandments by bearing false witness. > > > > > >A list of a few of the false accusations Bill Morgan has made >against > >me > > >and refuses to substantiate follows: > > > > > >1. Having conducted "bigoted attacks on [him] and [his] wife" > > > > > >2. Thinking he is "some evil wicked person out to destroy society". > > > > > >3. Thinking he is "wacked for beleiving in God". > > > > > >4. "[P]ersonally insulting [him] on the level of a name calling 2nd > > >grader." > > > > > >5. "[I]nsulting [his] wife and [him]. > > > > > >6. That my wife and I had labelled him and his wife as evil. > > > > > >7. Calling him "very nasty names." > > > > > >8. That I had told him "what [my] wife thought of those who beleive >in > > >Gid". > > > > > >9. That I would think he and his wife "are evil and wicked, the >world's > > >most sinister people". > > > > > >10. That I refuse to meet him because of his beliefs. > > > > > >11. That I sent electronically "many nasty words that were anti > >religious". > > > > > >Bill needs to either substantiate these accusations or else >acknowledge > > >that they are false and offer a most sincere apology to all parties >for > > >having made those accusations and particularly for having prevented >the > > >timely resolution of this matter. > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-yh05.mx.aol.com (rly-yh05.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.37]) by air-yh01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.3) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:36:57 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (f193.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.193]) by rly-yh05.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:36:19 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 19:36:19 -0700 Received: from 152.163.206.204 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 23 Sep 2000 02:36:18 GMT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.206.204] From: "Bill Morgan" To: plasma@worldnet.att.net, DWise1@aol.com Cc: editor@liberator.net Subject: Zebra Stripes from Mutations? Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 02:36:18 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Sep 2000 02:36:19.0051 (UTC) FILETIME=[0DA85BB0:01C02507] ################################################ Subj: Do cars really need computers? Date: 22-Sep-00 19:40:22 Pacific Daylight Time From: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan) To: plasma@worldnet.att.net, editor@liberator.net CC: DWise1@aol.com Hey you fellow car experts....weren't cars a whole heck of a lot more fun before these computers? I remember those hot summer nights of rebuilding our family's 427 without a care in the world......now it's all computerized. Comments? >From: ".." >To: "Mark" >CC: , >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to >you >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:28:22 -0700 > >Buddy!!! Come to the party!!!! Bring your family :) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mark > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net > Cc: DWise1@aol.com ; billyjack1@hotmail.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 5:52 PM > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to >you > > > If it's possible for fictional characters to love... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: .. > To: Bill Morgan ; DWise1@aol.com > Cc: editor@liberator.net > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:50 AM > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer >to you > > > Break bread and become friends!!!! It is amazing what a cup of pop and >piece of pizza can accomplish! Jesus Loves You! > Bill > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Morgan > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; DWise1@aol.com > Cc: editor@liberator.net > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:56 PM > Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >offer to you > > > Bill, good point, I offered to meet Mr Wise for food and drink many >times > and have been rejected. You know how much I hate typing. > > Mr Wise, lets meet and eat! :) > > > >From: "Bill Bequette" > >To: > >CC: , > >Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >offer to > >you > >Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 16:27:55 -0700 > > > >Sorry, > >I didn't see the explanation below when I sent the other email. >Well if > >Bill does not agree with your viewpoint or seems to have slandered >your > >name > >it may be because discussions about religion are a very emotional >topic and > >even if you were correct you could not ask him to relinquish his >"lifes > >values". You may be asking him to relinquish everything that he >believes > >in > >i.e. his entire personality and vice versa. I don't believe much >is > >accomplished in discussing religion, or politics. Neither party >will ever > >agree with the other in most cases. I am not refuting that I >believe in > >God > >by the above or that you or Bill are correct(I just don't have the >time to > >review all your emails) just that some issues are better left alone >if the > >goal is to convert the other based on the discussion at hand. >Maybe you > >should all get together and have a pizza and chill a little. I >wish you > >all > >well. Take Care, Bill B. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: DWise1@aol.com [mailto:DWise1@aol.com] > > > Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 2:56 PM > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net > > > Cc: dwise1@aol.com; editor@liberator.net; billyjack1@hotmail.com > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >offer to > > > you > > > > > > > > > Bill B., I understand that Bill Morgan (Bill M.) is your friend, > > > but I would hope that that friendship would not prevent you from > > > seeking the truth. I am not asking you to side with me against > > > your friend, but rather that you side with the cause of > > > determining the truth of this matter. From my own >fundamentalist > > > Christian training, I remember being taught that Christians at >to > > > serve the God of Truth, which Bill has echoed in his published > > > writings by telling proselytization trainees that they serve > > > Truth. Unless fundamentalist Christian thought has changed > > > radically in the past few decades (besides the heavy > > > politization), I would expect you to also want to serve Truth. > > > That is all that I ask, that you honor and apply those Christian >values. > > > > > > In order to serve Truth, the facts must be examined. That is >why > > > I had CC:'d all those messages to you, so that you could learn > > > something about what the situation here really is. That is also > > > why I told you where you could find copies of the correspondence > > > between Bill and me, so you could see for yourself what had been > > > said and what was going on. > > > > > > Bill misled you to believe that this was a disagreement over > > > world-views and that I was closing my eyes to the facts. I am > > > truly sorry to have to tell you this, but Bill lied to you. > > > World views had not had a chance to enter into the discussion. > > > And I have steadfastly insisted that we examine the facts >whereas > > > Bill has steadfastly refused to and is willfully preventing our > > > examination of the facts. > > > > > > No, what the disagreement is over is that Bill has > > > libelled/slandered me and I am trying to resolve that matter. >He > > > has made several false accusations against me, saying that I had > > > said or that I believe various horrible things. I am sure that >I > > > had never said such things to Bill or about Bill in print. I > > > have repeatedly asked Bill to substantiate his accusations, at > > > the very least he needs to tell me what I had said, as close as > > > he can remember it. Bill steadfastly refuses. Until he >provides > > > that information, we cannot know which messages to examine in > > > order to arrive at the truth. > > > > > > In order to arrive at the truth in this matter, we need to > > > examine the facts, ie, what does Bill think I had said and what > > > had I actually written? I have repeatedly called for >examination > > > of the facts and Bill has steadfastly ignored those requests. > > > Since I find it impossible to believe that he could have missed > > > over 20 very clear requests (about 27 now, if we include > > > references to those requests), Bill must be withholding his > > > information willfully. That would mean that Bill is willfully > > > opposing the Truth. Is that how a Christian is supposed to >behave? > > > > > > As I said, I am not asking you to side with me against Bill, but > > > rather that you side with the Truth. I have just repeated to >you > > > what I see the situation as being. You can read the actual > > > transcript to see whether I am being truthful or Bill is. Or > > > neither of us. > > > > > > In either case, we still need to resolve this matter. > > > Unfortunately, Bill is being intransigent. We need help. > > > > > > The actual role that I would like you to take is to try to > > > convince Bill to relinguish his information so that we can > > > finally examine the facts. What does he think I said to insult > > > his wife? What "very nasty names" does he think I called him? > > > At the end of this message, I will repeat the list of >accusations > > > Bill made against me; at least he confirmed that he had indeed > > > made those accusations. > > > > > > If you are unsuccessful in that endeavor, then at least try to > > > get Bill to explain to you why he refuses to divulge that > > > information. Please remind him that if I had truly done the > > > things that he had accused me of, then we would find them right > > > there in the record. > > > > > > Then if he refuses to give you that explanation, please ask he > > > why he is afraid to have the facts examined in this case. > > > > > > Personally, I believe that Bill Morgan sees this mess as one big > > > "rabbit trail" that he wants to milk for all that he can. As > > > long as we are mired in this mess, we cannot have a meaningful > > > discussion. About three years of correspondence with Bill has > > > taught me that he is very evasive and will do almost anything he > > > can to avoid having a meaningful discussion. Even break one of > > > the Ten Commandments by bearing false witness. > > > > > > A list of a few of the false accusations Bill Morgan has made > > > against me and refuses to substantiate follows: > > > > > > 1. Having conducted "bigoted attacks on [him] and [his] wife" > > > > > > 2. Thinking he is "some evil wicked person out to destroy >society". > > > > > > 3. Thinking he is "wacked for beleiving in God". > > > > > > 4. "[P]ersonally insulting [him] on the level of a name calling > > > 2nd grader." > > > > > > 5. "[I]nsulting [his] wife and [him]. > > > > > > 6. That my wife and I had labelled him and his wife as evil. > > > > > > 7. Calling him "very nasty names." > > > > > > 8. That I had told him "what [my] wife thought of those who > > > beleive in Gid". > > > > > > 9. That I would think he and his wife "are evil and wicked, the > > > world's most sinister people". > > > > > > 10. That I refuse to meet him because of his beliefs. > > > > > > 11. That I sent electronically "many nasty words that were anti > > > religious". > > > > > > Bill needs to either substantiate these accusations or else > > > acknowledge that they are false and offer a most sincere apology > > > to all parties for having made those accusations and >particularly > > > for having prevented the timely resolution of this matter. > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-yd01.mx.aol.com (rly-yd01.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.1]) by air-yd05.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.3) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:40:22 2000 Received: from hotmail.com (f180.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.180]) by rly-yd01.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:39:51 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 19:39:46 -0700 Received: from 152.163.206.204 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 23 Sep 2000 02:39:46 GMT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.206.204] From: "Bill Morgan" To: plasma@worldnet.att.net, editor@liberator.net Cc: DWise1@aol.com Subject: Do cars really need computers? Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 02:39:46 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Sep 2000 02:39:46.0778 (UTC) FILETIME=[8978FBA0:01C02507] ################################################ Subj: Dr. Jessel and Mr. Hide Date: 22-Sep-00 19:42:51 Pacific Daylight Time From: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan) To: editor@liberator.net, plasma@worldnet.att.net, DWise1@aol.com Mark tries to be a big bad mean skeptic, but his deep rooted charming delightful personality frequently ebbs to the surface. Do submarine sandwiches mattter? I think so. >From: "Mark" >To: "Bill Morgan" , , > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to >you >Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:35:16 -0500 > >I'll be over but don't wait for me. > >= ) > >Take a look at the newest article to hit The Liberator: 'Does Jesus Exist >and Does it Matter?' > >Mark >The Liberator >E-Mail: editor@liberator.net >Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Bill Morgan >To: ; ; >Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 9:29 PM >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to >you > > >I would love to relax with our new friends! Go Jaguars! > >Wise/Liberal.....we get a 6 foot long sub sandwich and have a crazy >time....come on by! > > > >From: ".." > >To: "Bill Morgan" , , > > > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to > >you > >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:26:05 -0700 > > > >Hey that would be cool! We should all get together and party! We can get > >together when a good football game is on and eat chips and salsa. Your >dog > >is always trying to mooch the chips you nut!!! Did you teach her that? > >Let's do it!!!!! > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Bill Morgan > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; editor@liberator.net ; DWise1@aol.com > > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 8:15 PM > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer >to > >you > > > > > > Bill.....mi casa es su casa/ We love to open up our house and warmly > > welcome some of our friends (as you know our humble digs could not >house > >all > > of our friends...remember my birthday party? > > > > I hope to party with Mr Wise and Mr Liberal.net! > > > > > > >From: ".." > > >To: "Bill Morgan" , , > > > > > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer > >to > > >you > > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 08:49:19 -0700 > > > > > >Bill of course. I can't thank you enough for the last party you > >invited me > > >to with my wife. What a blast! Are you gonna have a great spread of > >food > > >again? Your wife is the best cook. The huge TV for the football >games > >is > > >way cool. Can I borrow it?? Thanks for all the great parties! > > >Take Care, Bill!!!!! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Bill Morgan > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; editor@liberator.net ; >DWise1@aol.com > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:58 PM > > > Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now > >offer to > > >you > > > > > > > > > Are you going to be able to come to my Monday Night Football Party > >Bill? > > > > > > > > > >From: "Bill Bequette" > > > >To: "Mark" , > > > >CC: > > > >Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now > >offer > > >to > > > >you > > > >Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 12:45:26 -0700 > > > > > > > >Well good luck to you all. I have kids, am married, worship God, > >have > > >a > > > >job, maintain a house and a lot of other responsibilities so I >wish > >you > > >all > > > >well but I really don't want to take part anymore in this > >discussion > > >due to > > > >time constraints. > > > >Adios! Bill > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Mark [mailto:editor@liberator.net] > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2000 6:55 AM > > > > > To: Bill Bequette; DWise1@aol.com > > > > > Cc: billyjack1@hotmail.com > > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I >now > > >offer to > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill Bequette , you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > "...even if you were correct you could not ask him to >relinquish > > > > > his 'lifes > > > > > values'. You may be asking him to relinquish everything that >he > > > > > believes in > > > > > i.e. his entire personality and vice versa." > > > > > > > > > > If Morgan's personality and thought structure was rooted in > > > > > maintaining the > > > > > truth, their might be a short moment when he rejects the truth > >due > > >to > > > >ego > > > > > but then he must come around. > > > > > > > > > > "I don't believe much is accomplished in discussing religion, >or > > > > > politics." > > > > > > > > > > This statement is completely false and it can be considered to > >be > > > > > anti-American. Our society is based on open dialogue and a >free > > > > > exchange of > > > > > information even and it pertains to philosophical discussion >as > >well > > >as > > > > > current events. What you suggest is that we not talk about > >issues > > >and > > > > > opinions which would certainly do our society greater harm > >because > > >your > > > > > status quo model would cause our society to degenerate past >the > > >brink of > > > > > calm discussion and enter into extremism to accomplish >personal > > >goals > > > >over > > > > > group harmony. > > > > > > > > > > "Neither party will ever agree with the other in most cases." > > > > > > > > > > Who says that the parties involved have to agree? Truth is a > > > > > difficult end > > > > > but the journey is as important as the final destination. > > > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > The Liberator > > > > > E-Mail: editor@liberator.net > > > > > Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: DWise1@aol.com [mailto:DWise1@aol.com] > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 2:56 PM > > > > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net > > > > > > Cc: dwise1@aol.com; editor@liberator.net; > >billyjack1@hotmail.com > > > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I > >now > > >offer > > > >to > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill B., I understand that Bill Morgan (Bill M.) is your > >friend, > > > > > > but I would hope that that friendship would not prevent you > >from > > > > > > seeking the truth. I am not asking you to side with me > >against > > > > > > your friend, but rather that you side with the cause of > > > > > > determining the truth of this matter. From my own > >fundamentalist > > > > > > Christian training, I remember being taught that Christians >at > >to > > > > > > serve the God of Truth, which Bill has echoed in his >published > > > > > > writings by telling proselytization trainees that they serve > > > > > > Truth. Unless fundamentalist Christian thought has changed > > > > > > radically in the past few decades (besides the heavy > > > > > > politization), I would expect you to also want to serve >Truth. > > > > > > That is all that I ask, that you honor and apply those > >Christian > > > >values. > > > > > > > > > > > > In order to serve Truth, the facts must be examined. That >is > >why > > > > > > I had CC:'d all those messages to you, so that you could >learn > > > > > > something about what the situation here really is. That is > >also > > > > > > why I told you where you could find copies of the > >correspondence > > > > > > between Bill and me, so you could see for yourself what had > >been > > > > > > said and what was going on. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill misled you to believe that this was a disagreement over > > > > > > world-views and that I was closing my eyes to the facts. I >am > > > > > > truly sorry to have to tell you this, but Bill lied to you. > > > > > > World views had not had a chance to enter into the >discussion. > > > > > > And I have steadfastly insisted that we examine the facts > >whereas > > > > > > Bill has steadfastly refused to and is willfully preventing > >our > > > > > > examination of the facts. > > > > > > > > > > > > No, what the disagreement is over is that Bill has > > > > > > libelled/slandered me and I am trying to resolve that >matter. > >He > > > > > > has made several false accusations against me, saying that I > >had > > > > > > said or that I believe various horrible things. I am sure > >that I > > > > > > had never said such things to Bill or about Bill in print. >I > > > > > > have repeatedly asked Bill to substantiate his accusations, >at > > > > > > the very least he needs to tell me what I had said, as close > >as > > > > > > he can remember it. Bill steadfastly refuses. Until he > >provides > > > > > > that information, we cannot know which messages to examine >in > > > > > > order to arrive at the truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > In order to arrive at the truth in this matter, we need to > > > > > > examine the facts, ie, what does Bill think I had said and > >what > > > > > > had I actually written? I have repeatedly called for > >examination > > > > > > of the facts and Bill has steadfastly ignored those >requests. > > > > > > Since I find it impossible to believe that he could have > >missed > > > > > > over 20 very clear requests (about 27 now, if we include > > > > > > references to those requests), Bill must be withholding his > > > > > > information willfully. That would mean that Bill is >willfully > > > > > > opposing the Truth. Is that how a Christian is supposed to > > >behave? > > > > > > > > > > > > As I said, I am not asking you to side with me against Bill, > >but > > > > > > rather that you side with the Truth. I have just repeated >to > >you > > > > > > what I see the situation as being. You can read the actual > > > > > > transcript to see whether I am being truthful or Bill is. >Or > > > > > > neither of us. > > > > > > > > > > > > In either case, we still need to resolve this matter. > > > > > > Unfortunately, Bill is being intransigent. We need help. > > > > > > > > > > > > The actual role that I would like you to take is to try to > > > > > > convince Bill to relinguish his information so that we can > > > > > > finally examine the facts. What does he think I said to > >insult > > > > > > his wife? What "very nasty names" does he think I called >him? > > > > > > At the end of this message, I will repeat the list of > >accusations > > > > > > Bill made against me; at least he confirmed that he had >indeed > > > > > > made those accusations. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are unsuccessful in that endeavor, then at least try >to > > > > > > get Bill to explain to you why he refuses to divulge that > > > > > > information. Please remind him that if I had truly done the > > > > > > things that he had accused me of, then we would find them > >right > > > > > > there in the record. > > > > > > > > > > > > Then if he refuses to give you that explanation, please ask >he > > > > > > why he is afraid to have the facts examined in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > Personally, I believe that Bill Morgan sees this mess as one > >big > > > > > > "rabbit trail" that he wants to milk for all that he can. >As > > > > > > long as we are mired in this mess, we cannot have a >meaningful > > > > > > discussion. About three years of correspondence with Bill >has > > > > > > taught me that he is very evasive and will do almost >anything > >he > > > > > > can to avoid having a meaningful discussion. Even break one > >of > > > > > > the Ten Commandments by bearing false witness. > > > > > > > > > > > > A list of a few of the false accusations Bill Morgan has >made > > > > > > against me and refuses to substantiate follows: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Having conducted "bigoted attacks on [him] and [his] >wife" > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Thinking he is "some evil wicked person out to destroy > > >society". > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. Thinking he is "wacked for beleiving in God". > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. "[P]ersonally insulting [him] on the level of a name > >calling > > > > > > 2nd grader." > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. "[I]nsulting [his] wife and [him]. > > > > > > > > > > > > 6. That my wife and I had labelled him and his wife as evil. > > > > > > > > > > > > 7. Calling him "very nasty names." > > > > > > > > > > > > 8. That I had told him "what [my] wife thought of those who > > > > > > beleive in Gid". > > > > > > > > > > > > 9. That I would think he and his wife "are evil and wicked, > >the > > > > > > world's most sinister people". > > > > > > > > > > > > 10. That I refuse to meet him because of his beliefs. > > > > > > > > > > > > 11. That I sent electronically "many nasty words that were > >anti > > > > > > religious". > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill needs to either substantiate these accusations or else > > > > > > acknowledge that they are false and offer a most sincere > >apology > > > > > > to all parties for having made those accusations and > >particularly > > > > > > for having prevented the timely resolution of this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile >at > > > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >http://profiles.msn.com. > > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-yh03.mx.aol.com (rly-yh03.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.35]) by air-yh03.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.3) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:42:51 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (f130.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.130]) by rly-yh03.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:42:20 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 19:42:19 -0700 Received: from 152.163.206.204 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 23 Sep 2000 02:42:19 GMT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.206.204] From: "Bill Morgan" To: editor@liberator.net, plasma@worldnet.att.net, DWise1@aol.com Subject: Dr. Jessel and Mr. Hide Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 02:42:19 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Sep 2000 02:42:19.0444 (UTC) FILETIME=[E477F740:01C02507] ################################################ Subj: Re: Dr. Jessel and Mr. Hide Date: 22-Sep-00 19:49:56 Pacific Daylight Time From: editor@liberator.net (Mark) To: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan), plasma@worldnet.att.net, DWise1@aol.com Bill Morgan , you wrote: "Mark tries to be a big bad mean skeptic, but his deep rooted charming delightful personality frequently ebbs to the surface." There is nothing bad or mean about thinking and certainly challenging unsupported claims should not be frowned upon as well -- despite what religious organizations say on the matter. = ) You should try it sometime. "Do submarine sandwiches mattter? I think so." I'll pitch in when I get there. See ya' soon. Mark The Liberator E-Mail: editor@liberator.net Web Site: http://liberator.net/ >From: "Mark" >To: "Bill Morgan" , , > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to >you >Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:35:16 -0500 > >I'll be over but don't wait for me. > >= ) > >Take a look at the newest article to hit The Liberator: 'Does Jesus Exist >and Does it Matter?' > >Mark >The Liberator >E-Mail: editor@liberator.net >Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Bill Morgan >To: ; ; >Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 9:29 PM >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to >you > > >I would love to relax with our new friends! Go Jaguars! > >Wise/Liberal.....we get a 6 foot long sub sandwich and have a crazy >time....come on by! > > > >From: ".." > >To: "Bill Morgan" , , > > > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to > >you > >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:26:05 -0700 > > > >Hey that would be cool! We should all get together and party! We can get > >together when a good football game is on and eat chips and salsa. Your >dog > >is always trying to mooch the chips you nut!!! Did you teach her that? > >Let's do it!!!!! > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Bill Morgan > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; editor@liberator.net ; DWise1@aol.com > > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 8:15 PM > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer >to > >you > > > > > > Bill.....mi casa es su casa/ We love to open up our house and warmly > > welcome some of our friends (as you know our humble digs could not >house > >all > > of our friends...remember my birthday party? > > > > I hope to party with Mr Wise and Mr Liberal.net! > > > > > > >From: ".." > > >To: "Bill Morgan" , , > > > > > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer > >to > > >you > > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 08:49:19 -0700 > > > > > >Bill of course. I can't thank you enough for the last party you > >invited me > > >to with my wife. What a blast! Are you gonna have a great spread of > >food > > >again? Your wife is the best cook. The huge TV for the football >games > >is > > >way cool. Can I borrow it?? Thanks for all the great parties! > > >Take Care, Bill!!!!! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Bill Morgan > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; editor@liberator.net ; >DWise1@aol.com > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:58 PM > > > Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now > >offer to > > >you > > > > > > > > > Are you going to be able to come to my Monday Night Football Party > >Bill? > > > > > > > > > >From: "Bill Bequette" > > > >To: "Mark" , > > > >CC: > > > >Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now > >offer > > >to > > > >you > > > >Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 12:45:26 -0700 > > > > > > > >Well good luck to you all. I have kids, am married, worship God, > >have > > >a > > > >job, maintain a house and a lot of other responsibilities so I >wish > >you > > >all > > > >well but I really don't want to take part anymore in this > >discussion > > >due to > > > >time constraints. > > > >Adios! Bill > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Mark [mailto:editor@liberator.net] > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2000 6:55 AM > > > > > To: Bill Bequette; DWise1@aol.com > > > > > Cc: billyjack1@hotmail.com > > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I >now > > >offer to > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill Bequette , you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > "...even if you were correct you could not ask him to >relinquish > > > > > his 'lifes > > > > > values'. You may be asking him to relinquish everything that >he > > > > > believes in > > > > > i.e. his entire personality and vice versa." > > > > > > > > > > If Morgan's personality and thought structure was rooted in > > > > > maintaining the > > > > > truth, their might be a short moment when he rejects the truth > >due > > >to > > > >ego > > > > > but then he must come around. > > > > > > > > > > "I don't believe much is accomplished in discussing religion, >or > > > > > politics." > > > > > > > > > > This statement is completely false and it can be considered to > >be > > > > > anti-American. Our society is based on open dialogue and a >free > > > > > exchange of > > > > > information even and it pertains to philosophical discussion >as > >well > > >as > > > > > current events. What you suggest is that we not talk about > >issues > > >and > > > > > opinions which would certainly do our society greater harm > >because > > >your > > > > > status quo model would cause our society to degenerate past >the > > >brink of > > > > > calm discussion and enter into extremism to accomplish >personal > > >goals > > > >over > > > > > group harmony. > > > > > > > > > > "Neither party will ever agree with the other in most cases." > > > > > > > > > > Who says that the parties involved have to agree? Truth is a > > > > > difficult end > > > > > but the journey is as important as the final destination. > > > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > The Liberator > > > > > E-Mail: editor@liberator.net > > > > > Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: DWise1@aol.com [mailto:DWise1@aol.com] > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 2:56 PM > > > > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net > > > > > > Cc: dwise1@aol.com; editor@liberator.net; > >billyjack1@hotmail.com > > > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I > >now > > >offer > > > >to > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill B., I understand that Bill Morgan (Bill M.) is your > >friend, > > > > > > but I would hope that that friendship would not prevent you > >from > > > > > > seeking the truth. I am not asking you to side with me > >against > > > > > > your friend, but rather that you side with the cause of > > > > > > determining the truth of this matter. From my own > >fundamentalist > > > > > > Christian training, I remember being taught that Christians >at > >to > > > > > > serve the God of Truth, which Bill has echoed in his >published > > > > > > writings by telling proselytization trainees that they serve > > > > > > Truth. Unless fundamentalist Christian thought has changed > > > > > > radically in the past few decades (besides the heavy > > > > > > politization), I would expect you to also want to serve >Truth. > > > > > > That is all that I ask, that you honor and apply those > >Christian > > > >values. > > > > > > > > > > > > In order to serve Truth, the facts must be examined. That >is > >why > > > > > > I had CC:'d all those messages to you, so that you could >learn > > > > > > something about what the situation here really is. That is > >also > > > > > > why I told you where you could find copies of the > >correspondence > > > > > > between Bill and me, so you could see for yourself what had > >been > > > > > > said and what was going on. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill misled you to believe that this was a disagreement over > > > > > > world-views and that I was closing my eyes to the facts. I >am > > > > > > truly sorry to have to tell you this, but Bill lied to you. > > > > > > World views had not had a chance to enter into the >discussion. > > > > > > And I have steadfastly insisted that we examine the facts > >whereas > > > > > > Bill has steadfastly refused to and is willfully preventing > >our > > > > > > examination of the facts. > > > > > > > > > > > > No, what the disagreement is over is that Bill has > > > > > > libelled/slandered me and I am trying to resolve that >matter. > >He > > > > > > has made several false accusations against me, saying that I > >had > > > > > > said or that I believe various horrible things. I am sure > >that I > > > > > > had never said such things to Bill or about Bill in print. >I > > > > > > have repeatedly asked Bill to substantiate his accusations, >at > > > > > > the very least he needs to tell me what I had said, as close > >as > > > > > > he can remember it. Bill steadfastly refuses. Until he > >provides > > > > > > that information, we cannot know which messages to examine >in > > > > > > order to arrive at the truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > In order to arrive at the truth in this matter, we need to > > > > > > examine the facts, ie, what does Bill think I had said and > >what > > > > > > had I actually written? I have repeatedly called for > >examination > > > > > > of the facts and Bill has steadfastly ignored those >requests. > > > > > > Since I find it impossible to believe that he could have > >missed > > > > > > over 20 very clear requests (about 27 now, if we include > > > > > > references to those requests), Bill must be withholding his > > > > > > information willfully. That would mean that Bill is >willfully > > > > > > opposing the Truth. Is that how a Christian is supposed to > > >behave? > > > > > > > > > > > > As I said, I am not asking you to side with me against Bill, > >but > > > > > > rather that you side with the Truth. I have just repeated >to > >you > > > > > > what I see the situation as being. You can read the actual > > > > > > transcript to see whether I am being truthful or Bill is. >Or > > > > > > neither of us. > > > > > > > > > > > > In either case, we still need to resolve this matter. > > > > > > Unfortunately, Bill is being intransigent. We need help. > > > > > > > > > > > > The actual role that I would like you to take is to try to > > > > > > convince Bill to relinguish his information so that we can > > > > > > finally examine the facts. What does he think I said to > >insult > > > > > > his wife? What "very nasty names" does he think I called >him? > > > > > > At the end of this message, I will repeat the list of > >accusations > > > > > > Bill made against me; at least he confirmed that he had >indeed > > > > > > made those accusations. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are unsuccessful in that endeavor, then at least try >to > > > > > > get Bill to explain to you why he refuses to divulge that > > > > > > information. Please remind him that if I had truly done the > > > > > > things that he had accused me of, then we would find them > >right > > > > > > there in the record. > > > > > > > > > > > > Then if he refuses to give you that explanation, please ask >he > > > > > > why he is afraid to have the facts examined in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > Personally, I believe that Bill Morgan sees this mess as one > >big > > > > > > "rabbit trail" that he wants to milk for all that he can. >As > > > > > > long as we are mired in this mess, we cannot have a >meaningful > > > > > > discussion. About three years of correspondence with Bill >has > > > > > > taught me that he is very evasive and will do almost >anything > >he > > > > > > can to avoid having a meaningful discussion. Even break one > >of > > > > > > the Ten Commandments by bearing false witness. > > > > > > > > > > > > A list of a few of the false accusations Bill Morgan has >made > > > > > > against me and refuses to substantiate follows: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Having conducted "bigoted attacks on [him] and [his] >wife" > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Thinking he is "some evil wicked person out to destroy > > >society". > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. Thinking he is "wacked for beleiving in God". > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. "[P]ersonally insulting [him] on the level of a name > >calling > > > > > > 2nd grader." > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. "[I]nsulting [his] wife and [him]. > > > > > > > > > > > > 6. That my wife and I had labelled him and his wife as evil. > > > > > > > > > > > > 7. Calling him "very nasty names." > > > > > > > > > > > > 8. That I had told him "what [my] wife thought of those who > > > > > > beleive in Gid". > > > > > > > > > > > > 9. That I would think he and his wife "are evil and wicked, > >the > > > > > > world's most sinister people". > > > > > > > > > > > > 10. That I refuse to meet him because of his beliefs. > > > > > > > > > > > > 11. That I sent electronically "many nasty words that were > >anti > > > > > > religious". > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill needs to either substantiate these accusations or else > > > > > > acknowledge that they are false and offer a most sincere > >apology > > > > > > to all parties for having made those accusations and > >particularly > > > > > > for having prevented the timely resolution of this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile >at > > > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >http://profiles.msn.com. > > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-zb02.mx.aol.com (rly-zb02.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.2]) by air-zb01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.3) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:49:56 -0400 Received: from uucphost.mcs.net (kitten2.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by rly-zb02.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:49:18 -0400 Received: from liber8r (liber8r.pr.mcs.net [199.3.42.5]) by uucphost.mcs.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA27562; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:49:06 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from editor@liberator.net) Message-ID: <004a01c02509$11275e60$052a03c7@liber8r> From: "Mark" To: "Bill Morgan" , , References: Subject: Re: Dr. Jessel and Mr. Hide Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:50:37 -0500 Organization: n/a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 ################################################ Subj: Kent Hovind speaking in Southern Cal Date: 22-Sep-00 20:06:44 Pacific Daylight Time From: billyjack321@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan) Sorry for the late notice but I recently just found out! Dr. Kent Hovind, the most entertaining and yet informative Creation Speaker will be at Calvary Chapel Golden Springs Sunday and Monday. He will speak: Sunday at 7:30; 9:30; 11:30 and 6 PM. Monday 7 PM. The church address is 22324 Golden Springs Drive, their number is 909 396-1884, their web site is ww.calvarygs.org. Kent Hovind's awesome web site is www.drdino.com. Call me if you have any questions (714) 898-8331 _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-yh01.mx.aol.com (rly-yh01.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.33]) by air-yh03.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.3) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 23:06:44 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (f23.law6.hotmail.com [216.32.241.23]) by rly-yh01.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 23:06:35 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 20:06:32 -0700 Received: from 152.163.188.9 by lw6fd.law6.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 23 Sep 2000 03:06:31 GMT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.188.9] From: "Bill Morgan" Subject: Kent Hovind speaking in Southern Cal Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 20:06:31 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Sep 2000 03:06:32.0757 (UTC) FILETIME=[46B5EE50:01C0250B] ################################################ Subj: Re: Dr. Jessel and Mr. Hide Date: 22-Sep-00 20:41:49 Pacific Daylight Time From: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan) To: editor@liberator.net, plasma@worldnet.att.net, DWise1@aol.com I love the intellectual thrust and parry with those of different opinions, I have no problem with that.....it is the greatest catalyst toward futher research....being challenged....I just have a hard time with incessant insults and whining from people who will remain nameless. Mark......we are buddies for life. The sub sandwich will have the works on it. >From: "Mark" >To: "Bill Morgan" , , > >Subject: Re: Dr. Jessel and Mr. Hide >Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:50:37 -0500 > >Bill Morgan , you wrote: > >"Mark tries to be a big bad mean skeptic, but his deep rooted charming >delightful personality frequently ebbs to the surface." > >There is nothing bad or mean about thinking and certainly challenging >unsupported claims should not be frowned upon as well -- despite what >religious organizations say on the matter. > >= ) > >You should try it sometime. > >"Do submarine sandwiches mattter? I think so." > >I'll pitch in when I get there. See ya' soon. > >Mark >The Liberator >E-Mail: editor@liberator.net >Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > > > >From: "Mark" > >To: "Bill Morgan" , , > > > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to > >you > >Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:35:16 -0500 > > > >I'll be over but don't wait for me. > > > >= ) > > > >Take a look at the newest article to hit The Liberator: 'Does Jesus Exist > >and Does it Matter?' > > > >Mark > >The Liberator > >E-Mail: editor@liberator.net > >Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Bill Morgan > >To: ; ; > >Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 9:29 PM > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to > >you > > > > > >I would love to relax with our new friends! Go Jaguars! > > > >Wise/Liberal.....we get a 6 foot long sub sandwich and have a crazy > >time....come on by! > > > > > > >From: ".." > > >To: "Bill Morgan" , , > > > > > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer >to > > >you > > >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:26:05 -0700 > > > > > >Hey that would be cool! We should all get together and party! We can >get > > >together when a good football game is on and eat chips and salsa. Your > >dog > > >is always trying to mooch the chips you nut!!! Did you teach her that? > > >Let's do it!!!!! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Bill Morgan > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; editor@liberator.net ; DWise1@aol.com > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 8:15 PM > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >offer > >to > > >you > > > > > > > > > Bill.....mi casa es su casa/ We love to open up our house and >warmly > > > welcome some of our friends (as you know our humble digs could not > >house > > >all > > > of our friends...remember my birthday party? > > > > > > I hope to party with Mr Wise and Mr Liberal.net! > > > > > > > > > >From: ".." > > > >To: "Bill Morgan" , , > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >offer > > >to > > > >you > > > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 08:49:19 -0700 > > > > > > > >Bill of course. I can't thank you enough for the last party you > > >invited me > > > >to with my wife. What a blast! Are you gonna have a great spread >of > > >food > > > >again? Your wife is the best cook. The huge TV for the football > >games > > >is > > > >way cool. Can I borrow it?? Thanks for all the great parties! > > > >Take Care, Bill!!!!! > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Bill Morgan > > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; editor@liberator.net ; > >DWise1@aol.com > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:58 PM > > > > Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now > > >offer to > > > >you > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you going to be able to come to my Monday Night Football >Party > > >Bill? > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Bill Bequette" > > > > >To: "Mark" , > > > > >CC: > > > > >Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now > > >offer > > > >to > > > > >you > > > > >Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 12:45:26 -0700 > > > > > > > > > >Well good luck to you all. I have kids, am married, worship >God, > > >have > > > >a > > > > >job, maintain a house and a lot of other responsibilities so I > >wish > > >you > > > >all > > > > >well but I really don't want to take part anymore in this > > >discussion > > > >due to > > > > >time constraints. > > > > >Adios! Bill > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Mark [mailto:editor@liberator.net] > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2000 6:55 AM > > > > > > To: Bill Bequette; DWise1@aol.com > > > > > > Cc: billyjack1@hotmail.com > > > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I > >now > > > >offer to > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill Bequette , you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > "...even if you were correct you could not ask him to > >relinquish > > > > > > his 'lifes > > > > > > values'. You may be asking him to relinquish everything >that > >he > > > > > > believes in > > > > > > i.e. his entire personality and vice versa." > > > > > > > > > > > > If Morgan's personality and thought structure was rooted in > > > > > > maintaining the > > > > > > truth, their might be a short moment when he rejects the >truth > > >due > > > >to > > > > >ego > > > > > > but then he must come around. > > > > > > > > > > > > "I don't believe much is accomplished in discussing >religion, > >or > > > > > > politics." > > > > > > > > > > > > This statement is completely false and it can be considered >to > > >be > > > > > > anti-American. Our society is based on open dialogue and a > >free > > > > > > exchange of > > > > > > information even and it pertains to philosophical discussion > >as > > >well > > > >as > > > > > > current events. What you suggest is that we not talk about > > >issues > > > >and > > > > > > opinions which would certainly do our society greater harm > > >because > > > >your > > > > > > status quo model would cause our society to degenerate past > >the > > > >brink of > > > > > > calm discussion and enter into extremism to accomplish > >personal > > > >goals > > > > >over > > > > > > group harmony. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Neither party will ever agree with the other in most >cases." > > > > > > > > > > > > Who says that the parties involved have to agree? Truth is >a > > > > > > difficult end > > > > > > but the journey is as important as the final destination. > > > > > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > The Liberator > > > > > > E-Mail: editor@liberator.net > > > > > > Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: DWise1@aol.com [mailto:DWise1@aol.com] > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 2:56 PM > > > > > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net > > > > > > > Cc: dwise1@aol.com; editor@liberator.net; > > >billyjack1@hotmail.com > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which >I > > >now > > > >offer > > > > >to > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill B., I understand that Bill Morgan (Bill M.) is your > > >friend, > > > > > > > but I would hope that that friendship would not prevent >you > > >from > > > > > > > seeking the truth. I am not asking you to side with me > > >against > > > > > > > your friend, but rather that you side with the cause of > > > > > > > determining the truth of this matter. From my own > > >fundamentalist > > > > > > > Christian training, I remember being taught that >Christians > >at > > >to > > > > > > > serve the God of Truth, which Bill has echoed in his > >published > > > > > > > writings by telling proselytization trainees that they >serve > > > > > > > Truth. Unless fundamentalist Christian thought has >changed > > > > > > > radically in the past few decades (besides the heavy > > > > > > > politization), I would expect you to also want to serve > >Truth. > > > > > > > That is all that I ask, that you honor and apply those > > >Christian > > > > >values. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In order to serve Truth, the facts must be examined. That > >is > > >why > > > > > > > I had CC:'d all those messages to you, so that you could > >learn > > > > > > > something about what the situation here really is. That >is > > >also > > > > > > > why I told you where you could find copies of the > > >correspondence > > > > > > > between Bill and me, so you could see for yourself what >had > > >been > > > > > > > said and what was going on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill misled you to believe that this was a disagreement >over > > > > > > > world-views and that I was closing my eyes to the facts. >I > >am > > > > > > > truly sorry to have to tell you this, but Bill lied to >you. > > > > > > > World views had not had a chance to enter into the > >discussion. > > > > > > > And I have steadfastly insisted that we examine the facts > > >whereas > > > > > > > Bill has steadfastly refused to and is willfully >preventing > > >our > > > > > > > examination of the facts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, what the disagreement is over is that Bill has > > > > > > > libelled/slandered me and I am trying to resolve that > >matter. > > >He > > > > > > > has made several false accusations against me, saying that >I > > >had > > > > > > > said or that I believe various horrible things. I am sure > > >that I > > > > > > > had never said such things to Bill or about Bill in print. > >I > > > > > > > have repeatedly asked Bill to substantiate his >accusations, > >at > > > > > > > the very least he needs to tell me what I had said, as >close > > >as > > > > > > > he can remember it. Bill steadfastly refuses. Until he > > >provides > > > > > > > that information, we cannot know which messages to examine > >in > > > > > > > order to arrive at the truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In order to arrive at the truth in this matter, we need to > > > > > > > examine the facts, ie, what does Bill think I had said and > > >what > > > > > > > had I actually written? I have repeatedly called for > > >examination > > > > > > > of the facts and Bill has steadfastly ignored those > >requests. > > > > > > > Since I find it impossible to believe that he could have > > >missed > > > > > > > over 20 very clear requests (about 27 now, if we include > > > > > > > references to those requests), Bill must be withholding >his > > > > > > > information willfully. That would mean that Bill is > >willfully > > > > > > > opposing the Truth. Is that how a Christian is supposed >to > > > >behave? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I said, I am not asking you to side with me against >Bill, > > >but > > > > > > > rather that you side with the Truth. I have just repeated > >to > > >you > > > > > > > what I see the situation as being. You can read the >actual > > > > > > > transcript to see whether I am being truthful or Bill is. > >Or > > > > > > > neither of us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In either case, we still need to resolve this matter. > > > > > > > Unfortunately, Bill is being intransigent. We need help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The actual role that I would like you to take is to try to > > > > > > > convince Bill to relinguish his information so that we can > > > > > > > finally examine the facts. What does he think I said to > > >insult > > > > > > > his wife? What "very nasty names" does he think I called > >him? > > > > > > > At the end of this message, I will repeat the list of > > >accusations > > > > > > > Bill made against me; at least he confirmed that he had > >indeed > > > > > > > made those accusations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are unsuccessful in that endeavor, then at least >try > >to > > > > > > > get Bill to explain to you why he refuses to divulge that > > > > > > > information. Please remind him that if I had truly done >the > > > > > > > things that he had accused me of, then we would find them > > >right > > > > > > > there in the record. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then if he refuses to give you that explanation, please >ask > >he > > > > > > > why he is afraid to have the facts examined in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Personally, I believe that Bill Morgan sees this mess as >one > > >big > > > > > > > "rabbit trail" that he wants to milk for all that he can. > >As > > > > > > > long as we are mired in this mess, we cannot have a > >meaningful > > > > > > > discussion. About three years of correspondence with Bill > >has > > > > > > > taught me that he is very evasive and will do almost > >anything > > >he > > > > > > > can to avoid having a meaningful discussion. Even break >one > > >of > > > > > > > the Ten Commandments by bearing false witness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A list of a few of the false accusations Bill Morgan has > >made > > > > > > > against me and refuses to substantiate follows: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Having conducted "bigoted attacks on [him] and [his] > >wife" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Thinking he is "some evil wicked person out to destroy > > > >society". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. Thinking he is "wacked for beleiving in God". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. "[P]ersonally insulting [him] on the level of a name > > >calling > > > > > > > 2nd grader." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. "[I]nsulting [his] wife and [him]. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6. That my wife and I had labelled him and his wife as >evil. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7. Calling him "very nasty names." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8. That I had told him "what [my] wife thought of those >who > > > > > > > beleive in Gid". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9. That I would think he and his wife "are evil and >wicked, > > >the > > > > > > > world's most sinister people". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10. That I refuse to meet him because of his beliefs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 11. That I sent electronically "many nasty words that were > > >anti > > > > > > > religious". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill needs to either substantiate these accusations or >else > > > > > > > acknowledge that they are false and offer a most sincere > > >apology > > > > > > > to all parties for having made those accusations and > > >particularly > > > > > > > for having prevented the timely resolution of this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > > > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile > >at > > > > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > > > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > >http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >http://profiles.msn.com. > > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-yh03.mx.aol.com (rly-yh03.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.35]) by air-yh03.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.3) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 23:41:49 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (f129.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.129]) by rly-yh03.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 23:41:29 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 20:41:28 -0700 Received: from 152.163.206.204 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 23 Sep 2000 03:41:28 GMT X-Originating-IP: [152.163.206.204] From: "Bill Morgan" To: editor@liberator.net, plasma@worldnet.att.net, DWise1@aol.com Subject: Re: Dr. Jessel and Mr. Hide Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 03:41:28 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Sep 2000 03:41:28.0919 (UTC) FILETIME=[281EDE70:01C02510] ################################################ Subj: Re: Dr. Jessel and Mr. Hide Date: 22-Sep-00 20:47:13 Pacific Daylight Time From: editor@liberator.net (Mark) To: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan), plasma@worldnet.att.net, DWise1@aol.com Bill Morgan , you wrote: "I love the intellectual thrust and parry with those of different opinions, I have no problem with that.....it is the greatest catalyst toward futher research....being challenged....I just have a hard time with incessant insults and whining from people who will remain nameless." I told you that I was going to enter into 'insult-mode' if you continued to contact me. You must enjoy the abuse, which would be consistent with your religious views. "Mark......we are buddies for life. The sub sandwich will have the works on it." What is it with you religious guys and love of phalic symbols? = ) Mark The Liberator E-Mail: editor@liberator.net Web Site: http://liberator.net/ >From: "Mark" >To: "Bill Morgan" , , > >Subject: Re: Dr. Jessel and Mr. Hide >Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:50:37 -0500 > >Bill Morgan , you wrote: > >"Mark tries to be a big bad mean skeptic, but his deep rooted charming >delightful personality frequently ebbs to the surface." > >There is nothing bad or mean about thinking and certainly challenging >unsupported claims should not be frowned upon as well -- despite what >religious organizations say on the matter. > >= ) > >You should try it sometime. > >"Do submarine sandwiches mattter? I think so." > >I'll pitch in when I get there. See ya' soon. > >Mark >The Liberator >E-Mail: editor@liberator.net >Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > > > >From: "Mark" > >To: "Bill Morgan" , , > > > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to > >you > >Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:35:16 -0500 > > > >I'll be over but don't wait for me. > > > >= ) > > > >Take a look at the newest article to hit The Liberator: 'Does Jesus Exist > >and Does it Matter?' > > > >Mark > >The Liberator > >E-Mail: editor@liberator.net > >Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Bill Morgan > >To: ; ; > >Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 9:29 PM > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to > >you > > > > > >I would love to relax with our new friends! Go Jaguars! > > > >Wise/Liberal.....we get a 6 foot long sub sandwich and have a crazy > >time....come on by! > > > > > > >From: ".." > > >To: "Bill Morgan" , , > > > > > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer >to > > >you > > >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:26:05 -0700 > > > > > >Hey that would be cool! We should all get together and party! We can >get > > >together when a good football game is on and eat chips and salsa. Your > >dog > > >is always trying to mooch the chips you nut!!! Did you teach her that? > > >Let's do it!!!!! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Bill Morgan > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; editor@liberator.net ; DWise1@aol.com > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 8:15 PM > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >offer > >to > > >you > > > > > > > > > Bill.....mi casa es su casa/ We love to open up our house and >warmly > > > welcome some of our friends (as you know our humble digs could not > >house > > >all > > > of our friends...remember my birthday party? > > > > > > I hope to party with Mr Wise and Mr Liberal.net! > > > > > > > > > >From: ".." > > > >To: "Bill Morgan" , , > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >offer > > >to > > > >you > > > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 08:49:19 -0700 > > > > > > > >Bill of course. I can't thank you enough for the last party you > > >invited me > > > >to with my wife. What a blast! Are you gonna have a great spread >of > > >food > > > >again? Your wife is the best cook. The huge TV for the football > >games > > >is > > > >way cool. Can I borrow it?? Thanks for all the great parties! > > > >Take Care, Bill!!!!! > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Bill Morgan > > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; editor@liberator.net ; > >DWise1@aol.com > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:58 PM > > > > Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now > > >offer to > > > >you > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you going to be able to come to my Monday Night Football >Party > > >Bill? > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Bill Bequette" > > > > >To: "Mark" , > > > > >CC: > > > > >Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now > > >offer > > > >to > > > > >you > > > > >Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 12:45:26 -0700 > > > > > > > > > >Well good luck to you all. I have kids, am married, worship >God, > > >have > > > >a > > > > >job, maintain a house and a lot of other responsibilities so I > >wish > > >you > > > >all > > > > >well but I really don't want to take part anymore in this > > >discussion > > > >due to > > > > >time constraints. > > > > >Adios! Bill > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Mark [mailto:editor@liberator.net] > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2000 6:55 AM > > > > > > To: Bill Bequette; DWise1@aol.com > > > > > > Cc: billyjack1@hotmail.com > > > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I > >now > > > >offer to > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill Bequette , you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > "...even if you were correct you could not ask him to > >relinquish > > > > > > his 'lifes > > > > > > values'. You may be asking him to relinquish everything >that > >he > > > > > > believes in > > > > > > i.e. his entire personality and vice versa." > > > > > > > > > > > > If Morgan's personality and thought structure was rooted in > > > > > > maintaining the > > > > > > truth, their might be a short moment when he rejects the >truth > > >due > > > >to > > > > >ego > > > > > > but then he must come around. > > > > > > > > > > > > "I don't believe much is accomplished in discussing >religion, > >or > > > > > > politics." > > > > > > > > > > > > This statement is completely false and it can be considered >to > > >be > > > > > > anti-American. Our society is based on open dialogue and a > >free > > > > > > exchange of > > > > > > information even and it pertains to philosophical discussion > >as > > >well > > > >as > > > > > > current events. What you suggest is that we not talk about > > >issues > > > >and > > > > > > opinions which would certainly do our society greater harm > > >because > > > >your > > > > > > status quo model would cause our society to degenerate past > >the > > > >brink of > > > > > > calm discussion and enter into extremism to accomplish > >personal > > > >goals > > > > >over > > > > > > group harmony. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Neither party will ever agree with the other in most >cases." > > > > > > > > > > > > Who says that the parties involved have to agree? Truth is >a > > > > > > difficult end > > > > > > but the journey is as important as the final destination. > > > > > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > The Liberator > > > > > > E-Mail: editor@liberator.net > > > > > > Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: DWise1@aol.com [mailto:DWise1@aol.com] > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 2:56 PM > > > > > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net > > > > > > > Cc: dwise1@aol.com; editor@liberator.net; > > >billyjack1@hotmail.com > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which >I > > >now > > > >offer > > > > >to > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill B., I understand that Bill Morgan (Bill M.) is your > > >friend, > > > > > > > but I would hope that that friendship would not prevent >you > > >from > > > > > > > seeking the truth. I am not asking you to side with me > > >against > > > > > > > your friend, but rather that you side with the cause of > > > > > > > determining the truth of this matter. From my own > > >fundamentalist > > > > > > > Christian training, I remember being taught that >Christians > >at > > >to > > > > > > > serve the God of Truth, which Bill has echoed in his > >published > > > > > > > writings by telling proselytization trainees that they >serve > > > > > > > Truth. Unless fundamentalist Christian thought has >changed > > > > > > > radically in the past few decades (besides the heavy > > > > > > > politization), I would expect you to also want to serve > >Truth. > > > > > > > That is all that I ask, that you honor and apply those > > >Christian > > > > >values. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In order to serve Truth, the facts must be examined. That > >is > > >why > > > > > > > I had CC:'d all those messages to you, so that you could > >learn > > > > > > > something about what the situation here really is. That >is > > >also > > > > > > > why I told you where you could find copies of the > > >correspondence > > > > > > > between Bill and me, so you could see for yourself what >had > > >been > > > > > > > said and what was going on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill misled you to believe that this was a disagreement >over > > > > > > > world-views and that I was closing my eyes to the facts. >I > >am > > > > > > > truly sorry to have to tell you this, but Bill lied to >you. > > > > > > > World views had not had a chance to enter into the > >discussion. > > > > > > > And I have steadfastly insisted that we examine the facts > > >whereas > > > > > > > Bill has steadfastly refused to and is willfully >preventing > > >our > > > > > > > examination of the facts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, what the disagreement is over is that Bill has > > > > > > > libelled/slandered me and I am trying to resolve that > >matter. > > >He > > > > > > > has made several false accusations against me, saying that >I > > >had > > > > > > > said or that I believe various horrible things. I am sure > > >that I > > > > > > > had never said such things to Bill or about Bill in print. > >I > > > > > > > have repeatedly asked Bill to substantiate his >accusations, > >at > > > > > > > the very least he needs to tell me what I had said, as >close > > >as > > > > > > > he can remember it. Bill steadfastly refuses. Until he > > >provides > > > > > > > that information, we cannot know which messages to examine > >in > > > > > > > order to arrive at the truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In order to arrive at the truth in this matter, we need to > > > > > > > examine the facts, ie, what does Bill think I had said and > > >what > > > > > > > had I actually written? I have repeatedly called for > > >examination > > > > > > > of the facts and Bill has steadfastly ignored those > >requests. > > > > > > > Since I find it impossible to believe that he could have > > >missed > > > > > > > over 20 very clear requests (about 27 now, if we include > > > > > > > references to those requests), Bill must be withholding >his > > > > > > > information willfully. That would mean that Bill is > >willfully > > > > > > > opposing the Truth. Is that how a Christian is supposed >to > > > >behave? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I said, I am not asking you to side with me against >Bill, > > >but > > > > > > > rather that you side with the Truth. I have just repeated > >to > > >you > > > > > > > what I see the situation as being. You can read the >actual > > > > > > > transcript to see whether I am being truthful or Bill is. > >Or > > > > > > > neither of us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In either case, we still need to resolve this matter. > > > > > > > Unfortunately, Bill is being intransigent. We need help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The actual role that I would like you to take is to try to > > > > > > > convince Bill to relinguish his information so that we can > > > > > > > finally examine the facts. What does he think I said to > > >insult > > > > > > > his wife? What "very nasty names" does he think I called > >him? > > > > > > > At the end of this message, I will repeat the list of > > >accusations > > > > > > > Bill made against me; at least he confirmed that he had > >indeed > > > > > > > made those accusations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are unsuccessful in that endeavor, then at least >try > >to > > > > > > > get Bill to explain to you why he refuses to divulge that > > > > > > > information. Please remind him that if I had truly done >the > > > > > > > things that he had accused me of, then we would find them > > >right > > > > > > > there in the record. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then if he refuses to give you that explanation, please >ask > >he > > > > > > > why he is afraid to have the facts examined in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Personally, I believe that Bill Morgan sees this mess as >one > > >big > > > > > > > "rabbit trail" that he wants to milk for all that he can. > >As > > > > > > > long as we are mired in this mess, we cannot have a > >meaningful > > > > > > > discussion. About three years of correspondence with Bill > >has > > > > > > > taught me that he is very evasive and will do almost > >anything > > >he > > > > > > > can to avoid having a meaningful discussion. Even break >one > > >of > > > > > > > the Ten Commandments by bearing false witness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A list of a few of the false accusations Bill Morgan has > >made > > > > > > > against me and refuses to substantiate follows: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Having conducted "bigoted attacks on [him] and [his] > >wife" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Thinking he is "some evil wicked person out to destroy > > > >society". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. Thinking he is "wacked for beleiving in God". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. "[P]ersonally insulting [him] on the level of a name > > >calling > > > > > > > 2nd grader." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. "[I]nsulting [his] wife and [him]. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6. That my wife and I had labelled him and his wife as >evil. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7. Calling him "very nasty names." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8. That I had told him "what [my] wife thought of those >who > > > > > > > beleive in Gid". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9. That I would think he and his wife "are evil and >wicked, > > >the > > > > > > > world's most sinister people". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10. That I refuse to meet him because of his beliefs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 11. That I sent electronically "many nasty words that were > > >anti > > > > > > > religious". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill needs to either substantiate these accusations or >else > > > > > > > acknowledge that they are false and offer a most sincere > > >apology > > > > > > > to all parties for having made those accusations and > > >particularly > > > > > > > for having prevented the timely resolution of this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > > > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile > >at > > > > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > > > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > >http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >http://profiles.msn.com. > > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-yh01.mx.aol.com (rly-yh01.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.33]) by air-yh03.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.3) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 23:47:13 -0400 Received: from uucphost.mcs.net (kitten2.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by rly-yh01.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 23:46:49 -0400 Received: from liber8r (liber8r.pr.mcs.net [199.3.42.5]) by uucphost.mcs.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA32092; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:46:44 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from editor@liberator.net) Message-ID: <007601c02511$1d974ae0$052a03c7@liber8r> From: "Mark" To: "Bill Morgan" , , References: Subject: Re: Dr. Jessel and Mr. Hide Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:48:18 -0500 Organization: n/a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 ################################################ Subj: Who gave the "fly" the name of "fly?" Date: 27-Sep-00 07:42:41 Pacific Daylight Time From: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan) To: editor@liberator.net, billbeq@mediaone.net, DWise1@aol.com mark, when you abuse me I laugh! your abuse has humor to it. Mr Wise's did not have the style yours did. Here is a dialog where I can save you an email.....I welcome your comments: Me: "Mark, Dave, you won't ever admit this, but you are two people who are deathly afraid of God." Mark: "How can I be afraid of something that doesn't exist?" Me: "Ok......Mark, you are totally pissed off at God and emotionally driven to spend vast amounts of time disrespecting God." Mark: "Why would I be be pissed off and spend time fighting something that doesn't exist? Oppsy...wait... I do just that........." Me: "Exactly Mark, stop fighting a losing battle, you can't kill God." Mark: "You're right Bill, I am glad we have met. I will try to reason with Dave that fighting God is like totally uncool." Me: "I am glad we have met too." Mark: "Peace." Me: "Freedom." >From: "Mark" >To: "Bill Morgan" , , > >Subject: Re: Dr. Jessel and Mr. Hide >Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:48:18 -0500 > >Bill Morgan , you wrote: > >"I love the intellectual thrust and parry with those of different opinions, >I have no problem with that.....it is the greatest catalyst toward futher >research....being challenged....I just have a hard time with incessant >insults and whining from people who will remain nameless." > >I told you that I was going to enter into 'insult-mode' if you continued to >contact me. You must enjoy the abuse, which would be consistent with your >religious views. > >"Mark......we are buddies for life. The sub sandwich will have the works >on >it." > >What is it with you religious guys and love of phalic symbols? > >= ) > >Mark >The Liberator >E-Mail: editor@liberator.net >Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > > > >From: "Mark" > >To: "Bill Morgan" , , > > > >Subject: Re: Dr. Jessel and Mr. Hide > >Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:50:37 -0500 > > > >Bill Morgan , you wrote: > > > >"Mark tries to be a big bad mean skeptic, but his deep rooted charming > >delightful personality frequently ebbs to the surface." > > > >There is nothing bad or mean about thinking and certainly challenging > >unsupported claims should not be frowned upon as well -- despite what > >religious organizations say on the matter. > > > >= ) > > > >You should try it sometime. > > > >"Do submarine sandwiches mattter? I think so." > > > >I'll pitch in when I get there. See ya' soon. > > > >Mark > >The Liberator > >E-Mail: editor@liberator.net > >Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > > > > > > >From: "Mark" > > >To: "Bill Morgan" , , > > > > > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer >to > > >you > > >Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:35:16 -0500 > > > > > >I'll be over but don't wait for me. > > > > > >= ) > > > > > >Take a look at the newest article to hit The Liberator: 'Does Jesus >Exist > > >and Does it Matter?' > > > > > >Mark > > >The Liberator > > >E-Mail: editor@liberator.net > > >Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: Bill Morgan > > >To: ; ; > > >Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 9:29 PM > > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer >to > > >you > > > > > > > > >I would love to relax with our new friends! Go Jaguars! > > > > > >Wise/Liberal.....we get a 6 foot long sub sandwich and have a crazy > > >time....come on by! > > > > > > > > > >From: ".." > > > >To: "Bill Morgan" , , > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer > >to > > > >you > > > >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:26:05 -0700 > > > > > > > >Hey that would be cool! We should all get together and party! We can > >get > > > >together when a good football game is on and eat chips and salsa. >Your > > >dog > > > >is always trying to mooch the chips you nut!!! Did you teach her >that? > > > >Let's do it!!!!! > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Bill Morgan > > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; editor@liberator.net ; >DWise1@aol.com > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 8:15 PM > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now > >offer > > >to > > > >you > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill.....mi casa es su casa/ We love to open up our house and > >warmly > > > > welcome some of our friends (as you know our humble digs could not > > >house > > > >all > > > > of our friends...remember my birthday party? > > > > > > > > I hope to party with Mr Wise and Mr Liberal.net! > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: ".." > > > > >To: "Bill Morgan" , >, > > > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now > >offer > > > >to > > > > >you > > > > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 08:49:19 -0700 > > > > > > > > > >Bill of course. I can't thank you enough for the last party you > > > >invited me > > > > >to with my wife. What a blast! Are you gonna have a great >spread > >of > > > >food > > > > >again? Your wife is the best cook. The huge TV for the football > > >games > > > >is > > > > >way cool. Can I borrow it?? Thanks for all the great parties! > > > > >Take Care, Bill!!!!! > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Bill Morgan > > > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; editor@liberator.net ; > > >DWise1@aol.com > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:58 PM > > > > > Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I >now > > > >offer to > > > > >you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you going to be able to come to my Monday Night Football > >Party > > > >Bill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Bill Bequette" > > > > > >To: "Mark" , > > > > > >CC: > > > > > >Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I >now > > > >offer > > > > >to > > > > > >you > > > > > >Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 12:45:26 -0700 > > > > > > > > > > > >Well good luck to you all. I have kids, am married, worship > >God, > > > >have > > > > >a > > > > > >job, maintain a house and a lot of other responsibilities so >I > > >wish > > > >you > > > > >all > > > > > >well but I really don't want to take part anymore in this > > > >discussion > > > > >due to > > > > > >time constraints. > > > > > >Adios! Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: Mark [mailto:editor@liberator.net] > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2000 6:55 AM > > > > > > > To: Bill Bequette; DWise1@aol.com > > > > > > > Cc: billyjack1@hotmail.com > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which >I > > >now > > > > >offer to > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill Bequette , you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "...even if you were correct you could not ask him to > > >relinquish > > > > > > > his 'lifes > > > > > > > values'. You may be asking him to relinquish everything > >that > > >he > > > > > > > believes in > > > > > > > i.e. his entire personality and vice versa." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Morgan's personality and thought structure was rooted >in > > > > > > > maintaining the > > > > > > > truth, their might be a short moment when he rejects the > >truth > > > >due > > > > >to > > > > > >ego > > > > > > > but then he must come around. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "I don't believe much is accomplished in discussing > >religion, > > >or > > > > > > > politics." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This statement is completely false and it can be >considered > >to > > > >be > > > > > > > anti-American. Our society is based on open dialogue and >a > > >free > > > > > > > exchange of > > > > > > > information even and it pertains to philosophical >discussion > > >as > > > >well > > > > >as > > > > > > > current events. What you suggest is that we not talk >about > > > >issues > > > > >and > > > > > > > opinions which would certainly do our society greater harm > > > >because > > > > >your > > > > > > > status quo model would cause our society to degenerate >past > > >the > > > > >brink of > > > > > > > calm discussion and enter into extremism to accomplish > > >personal > > > > >goals > > > > > >over > > > > > > > group harmony. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Neither party will ever agree with the other in most > >cases." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who says that the parties involved have to agree? Truth >is > >a > > > > > > > difficult end > > > > > > > but the journey is as important as the final destination. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > The Liberator > > > > > > > E-Mail: editor@liberator.net > > > > > > > Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: DWise1@aol.com [mailto:DWise1@aol.com] > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 2:56 PM > > > > > > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net > > > > > > > > Cc: dwise1@aol.com; editor@liberator.net; > > > >billyjack1@hotmail.com > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense >which > >I > > > >now > > > > >offer > > > > > >to > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill B., I understand that Bill Morgan (Bill M.) is your > > > >friend, > > > > > > > > but I would hope that that friendship would not prevent > >you > > > >from > > > > > > > > seeking the truth. I am not asking you to side with me > > > >against > > > > > > > > your friend, but rather that you side with the cause of > > > > > > > > determining the truth of this matter. From my own > > > >fundamentalist > > > > > > > > Christian training, I remember being taught that > >Christians > > >at > > > >to > > > > > > > > serve the God of Truth, which Bill has echoed in his > > >published > > > > > > > > writings by telling proselytization trainees that they > >serve > > > > > > > > Truth. Unless fundamentalist Christian thought has > >changed > > > > > > > > radically in the past few decades (besides the heavy > > > > > > > > politization), I would expect you to also want to serve > > >Truth. > > > > > > > > That is all that I ask, that you honor and apply those > > > >Christian > > > > > >values. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In order to serve Truth, the facts must be examined. >That > > >is > > > >why > > > > > > > > I had CC:'d all those messages to you, so that you could > > >learn > > > > > > > > something about what the situation here really is. That > >is > > > >also > > > > > > > > why I told you where you could find copies of the > > > >correspondence > > > > > > > > between Bill and me, so you could see for yourself what > >had > > > >been > > > > > > > > said and what was going on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill misled you to believe that this was a disagreement > >over > > > > > > > > world-views and that I was closing my eyes to the facts. > >I > > >am > > > > > > > > truly sorry to have to tell you this, but Bill lied to > >you. > > > > > > > > World views had not had a chance to enter into the > > >discussion. > > > > > > > > And I have steadfastly insisted that we examine the >facts > > > >whereas > > > > > > > > Bill has steadfastly refused to and is willfully > >preventing > > > >our > > > > > > > > examination of the facts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, what the disagreement is over is that Bill has > > > > > > > > libelled/slandered me and I am trying to resolve that > > >matter. > > > >He > > > > > > > > has made several false accusations against me, saying >that > >I > > > >had > > > > > > > > said or that I believe various horrible things. I am >sure > > > >that I > > > > > > > > had never said such things to Bill or about Bill in >print. > > >I > > > > > > > > have repeatedly asked Bill to substantiate his > >accusations, > > >at > > > > > > > > the very least he needs to tell me what I had said, as > >close > > > >as > > > > > > > > he can remember it. Bill steadfastly refuses. Until he > > > >provides > > > > > > > > that information, we cannot know which messages to >examine > > >in > > > > > > > > order to arrive at the truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In order to arrive at the truth in this matter, we need >to > > > > > > > > examine the facts, ie, what does Bill think I had said >and > > > >what > > > > > > > > had I actually written? I have repeatedly called for > > > >examination > > > > > > > > of the facts and Bill has steadfastly ignored those > > >requests. > > > > > > > > Since I find it impossible to believe that he could have > > > >missed > > > > > > > > over 20 very clear requests (about 27 now, if we include > > > > > > > > references to those requests), Bill must be withholding > >his > > > > > > > > information willfully. That would mean that Bill is > > >willfully > > > > > > > > opposing the Truth. Is that how a Christian is supposed > >to > > > > >behave? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I said, I am not asking you to side with me against > >Bill, > > > >but > > > > > > > > rather that you side with the Truth. I have just >repeated > > >to > > > >you > > > > > > > > what I see the situation as being. You can read the > >actual > > > > > > > > transcript to see whether I am being truthful or Bill >is. > > >Or > > > > > > > > neither of us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In either case, we still need to resolve this matter. > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, Bill is being intransigent. We need >help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The actual role that I would like you to take is to try >to > > > > > > > > convince Bill to relinguish his information so that we >can > > > > > > > > finally examine the facts. What does he think I said to > > > >insult > > > > > > > > his wife? What "very nasty names" does he think I >called > > >him? > > > > > > > > At the end of this message, I will repeat the list of > > > >accusations > > > > > > > > Bill made against me; at least he confirmed that he had > > >indeed > > > > > > > > made those accusations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are unsuccessful in that endeavor, then at least > >try > > >to > > > > > > > > get Bill to explain to you why he refuses to divulge >that > > > > > > > > information. Please remind him that if I had truly done > >the > > > > > > > > things that he had accused me of, then we would find >them > > > >right > > > > > > > > there in the record. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then if he refuses to give you that explanation, please > >ask > > >he > > > > > > > > why he is afraid to have the facts examined in this >case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Personally, I believe that Bill Morgan sees this mess as > >one > > > >big > > > > > > > > "rabbit trail" that he wants to milk for all that he >can. > > >As > > > > > > > > long as we are mired in this mess, we cannot have a > > >meaningful > > > > > > > > discussion. About three years of correspondence with >Bill > > >has > > > > > > > > taught me that he is very evasive and will do almost > > >anything > > > >he > > > > > > > > can to avoid having a meaningful discussion. Even break > >one > > > >of > > > > > > > > the Ten Commandments by bearing false witness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A list of a few of the false accusations Bill Morgan has > > >made > > > > > > > > against me and refuses to substantiate follows: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Having conducted "bigoted attacks on [him] and [his] > > >wife" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Thinking he is "some evil wicked person out to >destroy > > > > >society". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. Thinking he is "wacked for beleiving in God". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. "[P]ersonally insulting [him] on the level of a name > > > >calling > > > > > > > > 2nd grader." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. "[I]nsulting [his] wife and [him]. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6. That my wife and I had labelled him and his wife as > >evil. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7. Calling him "very nasty names." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8. That I had told him "what [my] wife thought of those > >who > > > > > > > > beleive in Gid". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9. That I would think he and his wife "are evil and > >wicked, > > > >the > > > > > > > > world's most sinister people". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10. That I refuse to meet him because of his beliefs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 11. That I sent electronically "many nasty words that >were > > > >anti > > > > > > > > religious". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill needs to either substantiate these accusations or > >else > > > > > > > > acknowledge that they are false and offer a most sincere > > > >apology > > > > > > > > to all parties for having made those accusations and > > > >particularly > > > > > > > > for having prevented the timely resolution of this >matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > > > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > > > > > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public >profile > > >at > > > > > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > > > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile >at > > > > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > > >http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > >http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >http://profiles.msn.com. > > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-yc02.mx.aol.com (rly-yc02.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.34]) by air-yc05.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.3) with ESMTP; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:42:40 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (f84.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.84]) by rly-yc02.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:41:54 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 07:41:53 -0700 Received: from 164.45.101.11 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 14:41:53 GMT X-Originating-IP: [164.45.101.11] From: "Bill Morgan" To: editor@liberator.net, billbeq@mediaone.net, DWise1@aol.com Subject: Who gave the "fly" the name of "fly?" Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 14:41:53 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Sep 2000 14:41:53.0760 (UTC) FILETIME=[1404C600:01C02891] ################################################ Subj: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to you Date: 28-Sep-00 12:21:44 Pacific Daylight Time From: DWise1 To: billyjack1@hotmail.com CC: DWise1, plasma@worldnet.att.net CC: editor@liberator.net Bill M., for once couldn't you at least try to tell Bill B the truth? >>Bill: he refused to meet my wife and I for dinner calling us negative names related to our Christian beliefs.<< You've seen that invitation message a couple more times since you had written it, Bill M. There was no mention of your wife in it. You've also seen my response to that invitation a few times, so you should know that I did not call you or her any "negative names related to [your] Christian beliefs". The worst thing I recall ever having said about her was that she is human and capable of learning. What "negative names" are you talking about? What do you think they were? I've asked you that directly TWENTY TIMES and indirectly [through telling Bill B. about it in responses to you] about five or six times more. SO NOW I AM ASKING YOU FOR THE TWENTY-SIXTH TIME, what were those names that you are accusing me of having called you and your wife? Tell me so that we can examine the facts and discover what was really said. Only then can we resolve this matter. >>I told Mr Wise I am unlike him that I don't save all the emails.<< Why do you keep whining about that? It has absolutely nothing to do with the issue. Are you trying to use it as an excuse for not telling us what you think I had said and called you? Bill, that is locked away in YOUR memory. THAT is what you need to tell us. THAT is what we will then try to find in the transcript. Whether you had saved your email or not as ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with it! Besides misleading Bill B into believing that you need the transcript to support your accusations against me, you are also misleading him into believing that you do not have that transcript and probably also that I have withheld it from you. You most certainly have accused me elsewhere of not providing you with the transcript. In that case you would be telling Bill B a plain lie. I gave you the ENTIRE transcript on 21 August 2000. Since then I have been updating it with subsequent message traffic, currently up to 09 Sep 2000. YOU HAVE HAD IT FOR MORE THAN A MONTH! What have you done with it in all that time? When are you going to start telling Bill B the truth, Bill M? >>But I forgive him for denegrating our character for being Christians.<< A grand gesture which is completely empty and meaningless, considering that is nothing to forgive, since I had NOT "denegrat[ed y]our character for being Christians". SUPPORT YOUR ACCUSATION! WHAT do you think I had written? Please mark that request as having been made TWENTY-SEVEN times now. Bill M, I DO NOT FORGIVE YOU. I'm not talking about the accusations themselves, but rather about your persistent obstruction of our attempts to resolve the situation that your accusations have caused. Regarding the accusations themselves, I would not be surprised to find that you had misunderstood and misinterpreted what I had written. As Bill B is our witness [ie, he has seen such cases himself when I had to admonish you to read what is written], you have demonstrated the fairly consistent trait of not reading what is written, but rather creating your own version of what had been written, sometimes very imaginatively. You have also demonstrated a tendency to lose track of what is going on and who has written what, so I also suspect that in some of the cases you had falsely attributed to me something that somebody else had written. So far in every case I have seen, your private version of reality differs greatly from what the record shows as having actually happened and often involves a complete reversal of the facts. I strongly suspect that this is a primary reason why you are so afraid of the facts and why you want to prevent us from examining them. Bill M, your having imagined the acts of which you have accused me is almost understandable, considering the history of your behavior, and can readily be attributed to your misunderstanding. But the willfulness with which you have had to act to obstruct our examination of the facts is NOT understandable and can only be attributed to willfull intent. This matter is still open and still needs to be resolved. Bill M, you are preventing it from being resolved. SUPPORT YOUR ACCUSATIONS AGAINST ME! Please mark that request as having been made TWENTY-EIGHT times now. Until we can resolve this matter, it is impossible to even think of granting forgiveness. >>Bill, lets resolve this once and for all: what is your opinion of my wife? Is she nice?<< Bill M, just what are you talking about? Resolve WHAT? What does your wife have to do with any of this? You're acting like an idiot again. And if you are going to falsely accuse me again of having called her names, you'd better also tell us WHAT NAMES you are talking about. Refusal to provide that information will mean that you are lying. Please mark that request as having been made TWENTY-NINE times now. >>Mr. Wise: did you see my retraction in my newsletter?<< Yes, as I had said in a reply to Bill B that was CC:'d to you. I thought that statement, "We at the Orange County Creation Science Association strive to be accurate and honest in all our reporting to you.", gave it an interesting ironic touch, though unfortunately the irony was lost on most of your readership. Just in case you have forgotten yet again what had really happened, it took about a half-dozen messages from me before you finally realized that you had made a mistake and then it took about a half-dozen more messages before I could get you to commit to correcting your mistake. You were not "striv[ing] to be accurate and honest in all [y]our reporting". It looked to me that you were trying to avoid having to deal with your mistake, but could not ignore the facts that I kept hitting you with. If I had not saved those messages, I believe that you never would have admitted or corrected your mistake. That difficulty I had in getting you to do the right thing convinced me more than anything else that I absolutely need an accurate record of exactly what had been said in ALL my dealings with you. ################################################ Subj: Returned mail: User unknown Date: 28-Sep-00 12:22:51 Pacific Daylight Time From: MAILER-DAEMON@aol.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) To: DWise1@aol.com The original message was received at Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:21:44 -0400 (EDT) from root@localhost *** ATTENTION *** Your e-mail is being returned to you because there was a problem with its delivery. The address which was undeliverable is listed in the section labeled: "----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----". The reason your mail is being returned to you is listed in the section labeled: "----- Transcript of Session Follows -----". The line beginning with "<<<" describes the specific reason your e-mail could not be delivered. The next line contains a second error message which is a general translation for other e-mail servers. Please direct further questions regarding this message to the e-mail administrator or Postmaster at that destination. --AOL Postmaster ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to gateway4.worldnet.att.net.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 Invalid recipient: 550 ... User unknown -------------------- Final-Recipient: RFC822; plasma@worldnet.att.net Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; gateway4.worldnet.att.net Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 Invalid recipient: Last-Attempt-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:21:59 -0400 (EDT) -------------------- Received: from DWise1@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.24.) id i.43.ad864fc (15881); Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:21:44 -0400 (EDT) Return-Path: Received: from web41.aolmail.aol.com (web41.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.161.2]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.3) with ESMTP; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:21:44 -0400 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:21:43 EDT From: DWise1@aol.com Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to you To: Cc: , , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown Message-ID: <43.ad864fc.2704f448@aol.com> Bill M., for once couldn't you at least try to tell Bill B the truth? >>Bill: he refused to meet my wife and I for dinner calling us negative names related to our Christian beliefs.<< You've seen that invitation message a couple more times since you had written it, Bill M. There was no mention of your wife in it. You've also seen my response to that invitation a few times, so you should know that I did not call you or her any "negative names related to [your] Christian beliefs". The worst thing I recall ever having said about her was that she is human and capable of learning. What "negative names" are you talking about? What do you think they were? I've asked you that directly TWENTY TIMES and indirectly [through telling Bill B. about it in responses to you] about five or six times more. SO NOW I AM ASKING YOU FOR THE TWENTY-SIXTH TIME, what were those names that you are accusing me of having called you and your wife? Tell me so that we can examine the facts and discover what was really said. Only then can we resolve this matter. >>I told Mr Wise I am unlike him that I don't save all the emails.<< Why do you keep whining about that? It has absolutely nothing to do with the issue. Are you trying to use it as an excuse for not telling us what you think I had said and called you? Bill, that is locked away in YOUR memory. THAT is what you need to tell us. THAT is what we will then try to find in the transcript. Whether you had saved your email or not as ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with it! Besides misleading Bill B into believing that you need the transcript to support your accusations against me, you are also misleading him into believing that you do not have that transcript and probably also that I have withheld it from you. You most certainly have accused me elsewhere of not providing you with the transcript. In that case you would be telling Bill B a plain lie. I gave you the ENTIRE transcript on 21 August 2000. Since then I have been updating it with subsequent message traffic, currently up to 09 Sep 2000. YOU HAVE HAD IT FOR MORE THAN A MONTH! What have you done with it in all that time? When are you going to start telling Bill B the truth, Bill M? >>But I forgive him for denegrating our character for being Christians.<< A grand gesture which is completely empty and meaningless, considering that is nothing to forgive, since I had NOT "denegrat[ed y]our character for being Christians". SUPPORT YOUR ACCUSATION! WHAT do you think I had written? Please mark that request as having been made TWENTY-SEVEN times now. Bill M, I DO NOT FORGIVE YOU. I'm not talking about the accusations themselves, but rather about your persistent obstruction of our attempts to resolve the situation that your accusations have caused. Regarding the accusations themselves, I would not be surprised to find that you had misunderstood and misinterpreted what I had written. As Bill B is our witness [ie, he has seen such cases himself when I had to admonish you to read what is written], you have demonstrated the fairly consistent trait of not reading what is written, but rather creating your own version of what had been written, sometimes very imaginatively. You have also demonstrated a tendency to lose track of what is going on and who has written what, so I also suspect that in some of the cases you had falsely attributed to me something that somebody else had written. So far in every case I have seen, your private version of reality differs greatly from what the record shows as having actually happened and often involves a complete reversal of the facts. I strongly suspect that this is a primary reason why you are so afraid of the facts and why you want to prevent us from examining them. Bill M, your having imagined the acts of which you have accused me is almost understandable, considering the history of your behavior, and can readily be attributed to your misunderstanding. But the willfulness with which you have had to act to obstruct our examination of the facts is NOT understandable and can only be attributed to willfull intent. This matter is still open and still needs to be resolved. Bill M, you are preventing it from being resolved. SUPPORT YOUR ACCUSATIONS AGAINST ME! Please mark that request as having been made TWENTY-EIGHT times now. Until we can resolve this matter, it is impossible to even think of granting forgiveness. >>Bill, lets resolve this once and for all: what is your opinion of my wife? Is she nice?<< Bill M, just what are you talking about? Resolve WHAT? What does your wife have to do with any of this? You're acting like an idiot again. And if you are going to falsely accuse me again of having called her names, you'd better also tell us WHAT NAMES you are talking about. Refusal to provide that information will mean that you are lying. Please mark that request as having been made TWENTY-NINE times now. >>Mr. Wise: did you see my retraction in my newsletter?<< Yes, as I had said in a reply to Bill B that was CC:'d to you. I thought that statement, "We at the Orange County Creation Science Association strive to be accurate and honest in all our reporting to you.", gave it an interesting ironic touch, though unfortunately the irony was lost on most of your readership. Just in case you have forgotten yet again what had really happened, it took about a half-dozen messages from me before you finally realized that you had made a mistake and then it took about a half-dozen more messages before I could get you to commit to correcting your mistake. You were not "striv[ing] to be accurate and honest in all [y]our reporting". It looked to me that you were trying to avoid having to deal with your mistake, but could not ignore the facts that I kept hitting you with. If I had not saved those messages, I believe that you never would have admitted or corrected your mistake. That difficulty I had in getting you to do the right thing convinced me more than anything else that I absolutely need an accurate record of exactly what had been said in ALL my dealings with you. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <> Received: from rly-ye02.mx.aol.com (rly-ye02.mail.aol.com [172.18.151.199]) by air-ye03.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.3) with ESMTP; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:22:51 -0400 Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.1]) by rly-ye02.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:22:30 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost) by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with internal id PAA12693; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:22:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:22:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <200009281922.PAA12693@imo-r01.mx.aol.com> To: DWise1@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="PAA12693.970168950/imo-r01.mx.aol.com" Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) ################################################ Subj: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to you Date: 28-Sep-00 12:23:45 Pacific Daylight Time From: DWise1 To: billyjack1@hotmail.com CC: DWise1, editor@liberator.net CC: plasma@worldnet.att.net >>Bill [B]: they asked a neutral party Everett Purcell to rule on this matter and he ruled in my favor.<< Bill M, that is a plain lie and you know it! Here is what he said: "I have been undated by a surplus of E-mail that keeps me from other important things. I believe this is mostly game playing on your part. Bill Is a close friend of mine and a man of integrity. He is a professional man and one to be taken seriously. If you want to end this mess, just end it. This childs play has gone far enough." First, Everett Purcell was not a neutral party. Because he is your friend, he refused to even look at the facts. Second, I did not ask him to rule in the matter, but rather I asked both him and Mark to say whether they agreed that you were the plaintiff and I was the defendent (since you had made the accusations against me). That question was never addressed, nor for that matter was any question addressed by the two "judges". Third, Everett Purcell never made a ruling. Instead, he called the whole thing "child play" and said he wanted nothing to do with it. As I described it, he found your suit to be frivolous and threw it out. ################################################ Subj: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to you Date: 28-Sep-00 12:25:03 Pacific Daylight Time From: DWise1 To: billyjack1@hotmail.com CC: DWise1, editor@liberator.net CC: plasma@worldnet.att.net >>Mr Wise, lets meet and eat! :)<< Absolutely impossible as long as you oppose and obstruct our search for the truth. I already told you, Bill M. Before I could even consider meeting with you, you need to demonstrate that you can behave honestly and can refrain from acting like an idiot. You have not done so. ################################################ Subj: Returned mail: User unknown Date: 28-Sep-00 12:25:17 Pacific Daylight Time From: MAILER-DAEMON@aol.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) To: DWise1@aol.com The original message was received at Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:23:45 -0400 (EDT) from root@localhost *** ATTENTION *** Your e-mail is being returned to you because there was a problem with its delivery. The address which was undeliverable is listed in the section labeled: "----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----". The reason your mail is being returned to you is listed in the section labeled: "----- Transcript of Session Follows -----". The line beginning with "<<<" describes the specific reason your e-mail could not be delivered. The next line contains a second error message which is a general translation for other e-mail servers. Please direct further questions regarding this message to the e-mail administrator or Postmaster at that destination. --AOL Postmaster ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to gateway2.worldnet.att.net.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 Invalid recipient: 550 ... User unknown -------------------- Final-Recipient: RFC822; plasma@worldnet.att.net Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; gateway2.worldnet.att.net Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 Invalid recipient: Last-Attempt-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:24:45 -0400 (EDT) -------------------- Received: from DWise1@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.24.) id i.9.b2f0353 (15890); Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:23:45 -0400 (EDT) Return-Path: Received: from web33.aolmail.aol.com (web33.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.9]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.3) with ESMTP; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:23:45 -0400 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:23:41 EDT From: DWise1@aol.com Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to you To: Cc: , , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown Message-ID: <9.b2f0353.2704f4c1@aol.com> >>Bill [B]: they asked a neutral party Everett Purcell to rule on this matter and he ruled in my favor.<< Bill M, that is a plain lie and you know it! Here is what he said: "I have been undated by a surplus of E-mail that keeps me from other important things. I believe this is mostly game playing on your part. Bill Is a close friend of mine and a man of integrity. He is a professional man and one to be taken seriously. If you want to end this mess, just end it. This childs play has gone far enough." First, Everett Purcell was not a neutral party. Because he is your friend, he refused to even look at the facts. Second, I did not ask him to rule in the matter, but rather I asked both him and Mark to say whether they agreed that you were the plaintiff and I was the defendent (since you had made the accusations against me). That question was never addressed, nor for that matter was any question addressed by the two "judges". Third, Everett Purcell never made a ruling. Instead, he called the whole thing "child play" and said he wanted nothing to do with it. As I described it, he found your suit to be frivolous and threw it out. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <> Received: from rly-ye03.mx.aol.com (rly-ye03.mail.aol.com [172.18.151.200]) by air-ye03.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.3) with ESMTP; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:25:17 -0400 Received: from imo-r09.mail.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.9]) by rly-ye03.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:24:46 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost) by imo-r09.mail.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with internal id PAA06872; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:24:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:24:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <200009281924.PAA06872@imo-r09.mail.aol.com> To: DWise1@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="PAA06872.970169085/imo-r09.mail.aol.com" Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) ################################################ Subj: Returned mail: User unknown Date: 28-Sep-00 12:26:34 Pacific Daylight Time From: MAILER-DAEMON@aol.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) To: DWise1@aol.com The original message was received at Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:25:03 -0400 (EDT) from root@localhost *** ATTENTION *** Your e-mail is being returned to you because there was a problem with its delivery. The address which was undeliverable is listed in the section labeled: "----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----". The reason your mail is being returned to you is listed in the section labeled: "----- Transcript of Session Follows -----". The line beginning with "<<<" describes the specific reason your e-mail could not be delivered. The next line contains a second error message which is a general translation for other e-mail servers. Please direct further questions regarding this message to the e-mail administrator or Postmaster at that destination. --AOL Postmaster ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to gateway5.worldnet.att.net.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 Invalid recipient: 550 ... User unknown -------------------- Final-Recipient: RFC822; plasma@worldnet.att.net Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; gateway5.worldnet.att.net Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 Invalid recipient: Last-Attempt-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:26:08 -0400 (EDT) -------------------- Received: from DWise1@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.24.) id i.58.13b107c (15904); Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:25:03 -0400 (EDT) Return-Path: Received: from web51.aolmail.aol.com (web51.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.161.12]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.3) with ESMTP; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:25:03 -0400 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:25:02 EDT From: DWise1@aol.com Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to you To: Cc: , , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown Message-ID: <58.13b107c.2704f50f@aol.com> >>Mr Wise, lets meet and eat! :)<< Absolutely impossible as long as you oppose and obstruct our search for the truth. I already told you, Bill M. Before I could even consider meeting with you, you need to demonstrate that you can behave honestly and can refrain from acting like an idiot. You have not done so. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <> Received: from rly-zd02.mx.aol.com (rly-zd02.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.226]) by air-zd05.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:26:34 -0400 Received: from imo-r04.mail.aol.com (imo-r04.mail.aol.com [172.31.36.4]) by rly-zd02.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:26:08 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost) by imo-r04.mail.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with internal id PAA29654; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:26:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <200009281926.PAA29654@imo-r04.mail.aol.com> To: DWise1@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="PAA29654.970169168/imo-r04.mail.aol.com" Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) ################################################ Subj: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to you Date: 28-Sep-00 12:29:53 Pacific Daylight Time From: DWise1 To: billyjack1@hotmail.com CC: DWise1, plasma@worldnet.att.net CC: editor@liberator.net >>I hope to party with Mr Wise and Mr Liberal.net!<< Sorry, I don't party with someone who tells slanderous lies about me and refuses to support them in any manner. You would need to change your evil ways first. I do not party with people who tell slanderous lies about me and then obstruct all attempts to resolve the matter. >>... (as you know our humble digs could not house all of our friends...remember my birthday party? << Sounds like a Christmas party we went to once. It was in a quonset hut in married-student housing. Their place was so small that the guests had to come in shifts (no more than 8 at a time, as I recall) and, since it was in North Dakota, we had to keep the party indoors. ################################################ Subj: Returned mail: User unknown Date: 28-Sep-00 12:31:40 Pacific Daylight Time From: MAILER-DAEMON@aol.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) To: DWise1@aol.com The original message was received at Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:29:53 -0400 (EDT) from root@localhost *** ATTENTION *** Your e-mail is being returned to you because there was a problem with its delivery. The address which was undeliverable is listed in the section labeled: "----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----". The reason your mail is being returned to you is listed in the section labeled: "----- Transcript of Session Follows -----". The line beginning with "<<<" describes the specific reason your e-mail could not be delivered. The next line contains a second error message which is a general translation for other e-mail servers. Please direct further questions regarding this message to the e-mail administrator or Postmaster at that destination. --AOL Postmaster ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to gateway2.worldnet.att.net.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 Invalid recipient: 550 ... User unknown -------------------- Final-Recipient: RFC822; plasma@worldnet.att.net Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; gateway2.worldnet.att.net Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 Invalid recipient: Last-Attempt-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:30:27 -0400 (EDT) -------------------- Received: from DWise1@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.24.) id i.9e.a39e061 (15889); Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:29:53 -0400 (EDT) Return-Path: Received: from web29.aolmail.aol.com (web29.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.5]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.3) with ESMTP; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:29:53 -0400 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:29:52 EDT From: DWise1@aol.com Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to you To: Cc: , , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown Message-ID: <9e.a39e061.2704f631@aol.com> >>I hope to party with Mr Wise and Mr Liberal.net!<< Sorry, I don't party with someone who tells slanderous lies about me and refuses to support them in any manner. You would need to change your evil ways first. I do not party with people who tell slanderous lies about me and then obstruct all attempts to resolve the matter. >>... (as you know our humble digs could not house all of our friends...remember my birthday party? << Sounds like a Christmas party we went to once. It was in a quonset hut in married-student housing. Their place was so small that the guests had to come in shifts (no more than 8 at a time, as I recall) and, since it was in North Dakota, we had to keep the party indoors. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <> Received: from rly-za03.mx.aol.com (rly-za03.mail.aol.com [172.31.36.99]) by air-za01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.3) with ESMTP; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:31:40 -0400 Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.229]) by rly-za03.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:30:58 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost) by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with internal id PAA17062; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:30:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:30:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <200009281930.PAA17062@imo-d05.mx.aol.com> To: DWise1@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="PAA17062.970169458/imo-d05.mx.aol.com" Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) ################################################ Subj: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to you Date: 28-Sep-00 20:38:45 Pacific Daylight Time From: editor@liberator.net (Mark) To: DWise1@aol.com, billyjack1@hotmail.com CC: dwise1@aol.com, plasma@worldnet.att.net wrote: "Sorry, I don't party with someone who tells slanderous lies about me and refuses to support them in any manner. You would need to change your evil ways first. I do not party with people who tell slanderous lies about me and then obstruct all attempts to resolve the matter." My sentiments exactly... = ) Mark The Liberator E-Mail: editor@liberator.net Web Site: http://liberator.net/ ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-zb04.mx.aol.com (rly-zb04.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.4]) by air-zb03.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.3) with ESMTP; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:38:45 -0400 Received: from uucphost.mcs.net (kitten2.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by rly-zb04.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:38:28 -0400 Received: from liber8r (liber8r.pr.mcs.net [199.3.42.5]) by uucphost.mcs.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA82085; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:38:29 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from editor@liberator.net) Message-ID: <001201c029c6$f61e05c0$052a03c7@liber8r> From: "Mark" To: , Cc: , References: <9e.a39e061.2704f631@aol.com> Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to you Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:40:05 -0500 Organization: n/a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 ################################################ Subj: Re: Who gave the "fly" the name of "fly?" Date: 28-Sep-00 21:05:38 Pacific Daylight Time From: editor@liberator.net (Mark) To: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan), billbeq@mediaone.net, DWise1@aol.com Bill Morgan , you wrote: <> Bill, thanks for the complement. I know I am not only intelligent but I am incredibly handsome too! You, on the other hand, are as dull as a bent spoon. = ) Mark The Liberator E-Mail: editor@liberator.net Web Site: http://liberator.net/ ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-yd05.mx.aol.com (rly-yd05.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.5]) by air-yd01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.3) with ESMTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 00:05:38 -0400 Received: from uucphost.mcs.net (kitten2.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by rly-yd05.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 00:05:29 -0400 Received: from liber8r (liber8r.pr.mcs.net [199.3.42.5]) by uucphost.mcs.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA85234; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:05:29 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from editor@liberator.net) Message-ID: <005101c029ca$bb457d80$052a03c7@liber8r> From: "Mark" To: "Bill Morgan" , , References: Subject: Re: Who gave the "fly" the name of "fly?" Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:07:05 -0500 Organization: n/a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 ################################################ Subj: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to you Date: 29-Sep-00 13:01:05 Pacific Daylight Time From: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan) To: editor@liberator.net, DWise1@aol.com CC: plasma@worldnet.att.net Obstruct ALL attempts to resolve? Um cscuse me sir, I invite you to dinner and a party and I am not tring to resotore our friendship? Delusional............ >From: "Mark" >To: , >CC: , >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to >you >Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:40:05 -0500 > > wrote: > >"Sorry, I don't party with someone who tells slanderous lies about me and >refuses to support them in any manner. You would need to change your evil >ways first. I do not party with people who tell slanderous lies about me >and then obstruct all attempts to resolve the matter." > >My sentiments exactly... > >= ) > >Mark >The Liberator >E-Mail: editor@liberator.net >Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-za02.mx.aol.com (rly-za02.mail.aol.com [172.31.36.98]) by air-za03.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 16:01:05 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (f207.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.207]) by rly-za02.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 16:00:28 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 13:00:24 -0700 Received: from 164.45.101.11 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 20:00:24 GMT X-Originating-IP: [164.45.101.11] From: "Bill Morgan" To: editor@liberator.net, DWise1@aol.com Cc: plasma@worldnet.att.net Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to you Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 20:00:24 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Sep 2000 20:00:24.0604 (UTC) FILETIME=[E7CBA5C0:01C02A4F] ################################################ Subj: Pat Buchannon Date: 29-Sep-00 13:04:44 Pacific Daylight Time From: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan) To: DWise1@aol.com CC: plasma@worldnet.att.net, editor@liberator.net So not even a thank you for the retraction? I try so hard to please you Mr Wise and I think I never will. I took precious space in our excellent newletter to retract and and you slam me. What more can I do? >From: DWise1@aol.com >To: >CC: , , >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to >you >Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:21:43 EDT > >Bill M., for once couldn't you at least try to tell Bill B the truth? > > >>Bill: he refused to meet my wife and I for dinner calling us negative >names >related to our Christian beliefs.<< > >You've seen that invitation message a couple more times since you had >written it, Bill M. There was no mention of your wife in it. You've also >seen my response to that invitation a few times, so you should know that I >did not call you or her any "negative names related to [your] Christian >beliefs". The worst thing I recall ever having said about her was that she >is human and capable of learning. > >What "negative names" are you talking about? What do you think they were? >I've asked you that directly TWENTY TIMES and indirectly [through telling >Bill B. about it in responses to you] about five or six times more. SO NOW >I AM ASKING YOU FOR THE TWENTY-SIXTH TIME, what were those names that you >are accusing me of having called you and your wife? Tell me so that we can >examine the facts and discover what was really said. Only then can we >resolve this matter. > > >>I told Mr Wise I am unlike him that I don't save all the emails.<< > >Why do you keep whining about that? It has absolutely nothing to do with >the issue. > >Are you trying to use it as an excuse for not telling us what you think I >had said and called you? Bill, that is locked away in YOUR memory. THAT >is what you need to tell us. THAT is what we will then try to find in the >transcript. Whether you had saved your email or not as ABSOLUTELY NOTHING >to do with it! > >Besides misleading Bill B into believing that you need the transcript to >support your accusations against me, you are also misleading him into >believing that you do not have that transcript and probably also that I >have withheld it from you. You most certainly have accused me elsewhere of >not providing you with the transcript. In that case you would be telling >Bill B a plain lie. I gave you the ENTIRE transcript on 21 August 2000. >Since then I have been updating it with subsequent message traffic, >currently up to 09 Sep 2000. YOU HAVE HAD IT FOR MORE THAN A MONTH! What >have you done with it in all that time? > >When are you going to start telling Bill B the truth, Bill M? > > > >>But I forgive him for denegrating our character for being Christians.<< > >A grand gesture which is completely empty and meaningless, considering that >is nothing to forgive, since I had NOT "denegrat[ed y]our character for >being Christians". > >SUPPORT YOUR ACCUSATION! WHAT do you think I had written? > >Please mark that request as having been made TWENTY-SEVEN times now. > >Bill M, I DO NOT FORGIVE YOU. I'm not talking about the accusations >themselves, but rather about your persistent obstruction of our attempts to >resolve the situation that your accusations have caused. > >Regarding the accusations themselves, I would not be surprised to find that >you had misunderstood and misinterpreted what I had written. As Bill B is >our witness [ie, he has seen such cases himself when I had to admonish you >to read what is written], you have demonstrated the fairly consistent trait >of not reading what is written, but rather creating your own version of >what had been written, sometimes very imaginatively. You have also >demonstrated a tendency to lose track of what is going on and who has >written what, so I also suspect that in some of the cases you had falsely >attributed to me something that somebody else had written. > >So far in every case I have seen, your private version of reality differs >greatly from what the record shows as having actually happened and often >involves a complete reversal of the facts. I strongly suspect that this is >a primary reason why you are so afraid of the facts and why you want to >prevent us from examining them. > >Bill M, your having imagined the acts of which you have accused me is >almost understandable, considering the history of your behavior, and can >readily be attributed to your misunderstanding. But the willfulness with >which you have had to act to obstruct our examination of the facts is NOT >understandable and can only be attributed to willfull intent. > >This matter is still open and still needs to be resolved. Bill M, you are >preventing it from being resolved. SUPPORT YOUR ACCUSATIONS AGAINST ME! > >Please mark that request as having been made TWENTY-EIGHT times now. > >Until we can resolve this matter, it is impossible to even think of >granting forgiveness. > > >>Bill, lets resolve this once and for all: what is your opinion of my >wife? Is she nice?<< > >Bill M, just what are you talking about? Resolve WHAT? What does your >wife have to do with any of this? You're acting like an idiot again. > >And if you are going to falsely accuse me again of having called her names, >you'd better also tell us WHAT NAMES you are talking about. Refusal to >provide that information will mean that you are lying. > >Please mark that request as having been made TWENTY-NINE times now. > > >>Mr. Wise: did you see my retraction in my newsletter?<< > >Yes, as I had said in a reply to Bill B that was CC:'d to you. I thought >that statement, "We at the Orange County Creation Science Association >strive to be accurate and honest in all our reporting to you.", gave it an >interesting ironic touch, though unfortunately the irony was lost on most >of your readership. > >Just in case you have forgotten yet again what had really happened, it took >about a half-dozen messages from me before you finally realized that you >had made a mistake and then it took about a half-dozen more messages before >I could get you to commit to correcting your mistake. You were not >"striv[ing] to be accurate and honest in all [y]our reporting". It looked >to me that you were trying to avoid having to deal with your mistake, but >could not ignore the facts that I kept hitting you with. If I had not >saved those messages, I believe that you never would have admitted or >corrected your mistake. > >That difficulty I had in getting you to do the right thing convinced me >more than anything else that I absolutely need an accurate record of >exactly what had been said in ALL my dealings with you. > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-zd03.mx.aol.com (rly-zd03.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.227]) by air-zd02.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 16:04:44 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (f190.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.190]) by rly-zd03.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 16:04:26 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 13:04:26 -0700 Received: from 164.45.101.11 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 20:04:26 GMT X-Originating-IP: [164.45.101.11] From: "Bill Morgan" To: DWise1@aol.com Cc: plasma@worldnet.att.net, editor@liberator.net Subject: Pat Buchannon Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 20:04:26 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Sep 2000 20:04:26.0153 (UTC) FILETIME=[77C51990:01C02A50] ################################################ Subj: Why basketballs are orange Date: 29-Sep-00 13:14:36 Pacific Daylight Time From: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan) To: DWise1@aol.com CC: editor@liberator.net, billbeq@mediaone.net Judge Purcell ruled on myc haracter and said I was cool. Just admit I won. Bill 1 Mr Wise 0 Losing to me is no disgrace. You should come by my house and see the box loads of trophies I possess from Motocross, baseball, softball, volleyball, tennis, chess. bowing, football (ok flag football), skiing etc. These other people that I happened to defeat were all gracious losers. What is so hard for you to concede that Everett granted me victory? O I left out that I have basketball trophies too. But I have always made friends in my competition, ask Bequette, but to you winning is so important Mr Wise...relax....enjoy life, sometimes you must settle for second place. I do not always win, far from it! I coached a junior high basketball teama nd we had a perfect record......0-10! We lost every game! But...we were the only team in the league to play every player every game. The last game of the year we were winning but we had one child (Jonathon)who had not scored all year. I kept him in during crunch time and told the other guys to feed him the rock and let him get some shots...he did...missed them all....and never scored and we lost by 3 points. But, Jonathon is today a born again christian....at the time he was an angry bitter boy, but he has the love of Jesus and is at peace with himself. Who knows how much I played in that, I really don't know, but even if Jesus is fake (of course I do not believe this0 Jonathon is happier, healthier, hopeful, a better student than when he was a grumpy atheist. >From: DWise1@aol.com >To: >CC: , , >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to >you >Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:23:41 EDT > > >>Bill [B]: they asked a neutral party Everett Purcell to rule on this >matter and he ruled in my favor.<< > >Bill M, that is a plain lie and you know it! > >Here is what he said: > >"I have been undated by a surplus of E-mail that keeps me from other >important things. I believe this is mostly game playing on your part. >Bill Is a close friend of mine and a man of integrity. He is a >professional man and one to be taken seriously. If you want to end this >mess, just end it. This childs play has gone far enough." > >First, Everett Purcell was not a neutral party. Because he is your friend, >he refused to even look at the facts. > >Second, I did not ask him to rule in the matter, but rather I asked both >him and Mark to say whether they agreed that you were the plaintiff and I >was the defendent (since you had made the accusations against me). That >question was never addressed, nor for that matter was any question >addressed by the two "judges". > >Third, Everett Purcell never made a ruling. Instead, he called the whole >thing "child play" and said he wanted nothing to do with it. As I >described it, he found your suit to be frivolous and threw it out. > > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-yh05.mx.aol.com (rly-yh05.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.37]) by air-yh05.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 16:14:36 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (f176.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.176]) by rly-yh05.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 16:14:07 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 13:14:06 -0700 Received: from 164.45.101.11 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 20:14:05 GMT X-Originating-IP: [164.45.101.11] From: "Bill Morgan" To: DWise1@aol.com Cc: editor@liberator.net, billbeq@mediaone.net Subject: Why basketballs are orange Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 20:14:05 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Sep 2000 20:14:06.0265 (UTC) FILETIME=[D18B2A90:01C02A51] ################################################ Subj: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to you Date: 29-Sep-00 13:16:16 Pacific Daylight Time From: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan) To: DWise1@aol.com CC: editor@liberator.net, billbeq@mediaone.net I think my retracting in my newsletter which goes out to 1500 people aptly demonstrates my fairness. Love me or hate me, you must admit my retraction was a mnaly thing to do. >From: DWise1@aol.com >To: >CC: , , >Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to >you >Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:25:02 EDT > > >>Mr Wise, lets meet and eat! :)<< > >Absolutely impossible as long as you oppose and obstruct our search for the >truth. > > >I already told you, Bill M. Before I could even consider meeting with you, >you need to demonstrate that you can behave honestly and can refrain from >acting like an idiot. You have not done so. > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-yd01.mx.aol.com (rly-yd01.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.1]) by air-yd03.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 16:16:16 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (f124.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.124]) by rly-yd01.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 16:15:54 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 13:15:48 -0700 Received: from 164.45.101.11 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 20:15:48 GMT X-Originating-IP: [164.45.101.11] From: "Bill Morgan" To: DWise1@aol.com Cc: editor@liberator.net, billbeq@mediaone.net Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to you Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 20:15:48 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Sep 2000 20:15:48.0365 (UTC) FILETIME=[0E6663D0:01C02A52] ################################################ Subj: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to you Date: 29-Sep-00 13:18:42 Pacific Daylight Time From: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan) To: DWise1@aol.com CC: billbeq@mediaone.net, editor@liberator.net I am so happy to hear that at lease you used to celebrate the birth of our Savior, jesus christ! Give me that old time religion! >From: DWise1@aol.com >To: >CC: , , >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to >you >Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:29:52 EDT > > >>I hope to party with Mr Wise and Mr Liberal.net!<< > >Sorry, I don't party with someone who tells slanderous lies about me and >refuses to support them in any manner. You would need to change your evil >ways first. >I do not party with people who tell slanderous lies about me and then >obstruct all attempts to resolve the matter. > > > >>... (as you know our humble digs could not house all of our >friends...remember my birthday party? << > >Sounds like a Christmas party we went to once. It was in a quonset hut in >married-student housing. Their place was so small that the guests had to >come in shifts (no more than 8 at a time, as I recall) and, since it was in >North Dakota, we had to keep the party indoors. > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-za02.mx.aol.com (rly-za02.mail.aol.com [172.31.36.98]) by air-za04.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 16:18:42 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (f152.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.152]) by rly-za02.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 16:18:25 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 13:18:25 -0700 Received: from 164.45.101.11 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 20:18:24 GMT X-Originating-IP: [164.45.101.11] From: "Bill Morgan" To: DWise1@aol.com Cc: billbeq@mediaone.net, editor@liberator.net Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to you Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 20:18:24 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Sep 2000 20:18:25.0054 (UTC) FILETIME=[6BCB3BE0:01C02A52] ################################################ Subj: Elvis sang "My Way" better than Sinatra Date: 29-Sep-00 14:00:48 Pacific Daylight Time From: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan) To: editor@liberator.net, billbeq@mediaone.net, DWise1@aol.com Mark if attempts at insulting me makes you feel better go for it! You need some joy in your life! You avoided my point as usual. How can something that you say doth not exist pisseth thy off so? You would be like Fido chasing its tail! >From: "Mark" >To: "Bill Morgan" , , > >Subject: Re: Who gave the "fly" the name of "fly?" >Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:07:05 -0500 > >Bill Morgan , you wrote: > ><did not have the style yours did. Here is a dialog where I can save you an >email.....I welcome your comments: > >Me: "Mark, Dave, you won't ever admit this, but you are two people who are >deathly afraid of God." > >Mark: "How can I be afraid of something that doesn't exist?" > >Me: "Ok......Mark, you are totally pissed off at God and emotionally driven >to spend vast amounts of time disrespecting God." > >Mark: "Why would I be be pissed off and spend time fighting something that >doesn't exist? Oppsy...wait... I do just that........." > >Me: "Exactly Mark, stop fighting a losing battle, you can't kill God." > >Mark: "You're right Bill, I am glad we have met. I will try to reason >with >Dave that fighting God is like totally uncool." > >Me: "I am glad we have met too." > >Mark: "Peace." > >Me: "Freedom.">> > >Bill, thanks for the complement. I know I am not only intelligent but I am >incredibly handsome too! You, on the other hand, are as dull as a bent >spoon. > >= ) > >Mark >The Liberator >E-Mail: editor@liberator.net >Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-yd01.mx.aol.com (rly-yd01.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.1]) by air-yd02.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 17:00:48 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (f255.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.240.28]) by rly-yd01.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 17:00:32 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 14:00:30 -0700 Received: from 164.45.101.11 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 21:00:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [164.45.101.11] From: "Bill Morgan" To: editor@liberator.net, billbeq@mediaone.net, DWise1@aol.com Subject: Elvis sang "My Way" better than Sinatra Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 21:00:30 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Sep 2000 21:00:30.0232 (UTC) FILETIME=[4CEAD180:01C02A58] ################################################ Subj: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? Date: 30-Sep-00 15:54:22 Pacific Daylight Time From: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan) To: billbeq@mediaone.net, editor@liberator.net CC: DWise1@aol.com When you know the truth you are happy. >From: "Media One Mail" >To: "Bill Morgan" , >CC: >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:59:47 -0700 > >Bill have you ever noticed how unhappy some people are? Why is that? Bill >your real happy most the time! I think I know why!!!!! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Morgan > To: editor@liberator.net ; plasma@worldnet.att.net > Cc: DWise1@aol.com > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 7:08 AM > Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > I don't know about hype about exercising, I have always exercised. I >have > been busy watching the Olympics (really as back ground noise while doing > other vital things). Do gymnasts hate their bodies? Oh the humanity! > > > >From: "Mark" > >To: "Bill Morgan" , > >CC: > >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:16:24 -0500 > > > >Have you noticed all of this exorcism hype? First the Pope tries to > >exorcise a woman but fails. Next a priest is trained as an exorcist. >Then > >the film The Exorcist will be re-released soon. Coincidence? Nah.... > > > >People love fiction. It's entertaining.... > > > >Mark > >The Liberator > >E-Mail: editor@liberator.net > >Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Bill Morgan > >To: ; > >Cc: > >Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:08 PM > >Subject: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > > > >We will have a 6 foot long submarine sandwich and chips and stuff. >Please > >bring a liter bottle of your choice. > > > > > > >From: "Mark" > > >To: > > >CC: , > > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer >to > > >you > > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:52:56 -0500 > > > > > >If it's possible for fictional characters to love... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: .. > > > To: Bill Morgan ; DWise1@aol.com > > > Cc: editor@liberator.net > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:50 AM > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >offer > >to > > >you > > > > > > > > > Break bread and become friends!!!! It is amazing what a cup of pop >and > > >piece of pizza can accomplish! Jesus Loves You! > > > Bill > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Bill Morgan > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; DWise1@aol.com > > > Cc: editor@liberator.net > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:56 PM > > > Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now > >offer > > >to you > > > > > > > > > Bill, good point, I offered to meet Mr Wise for food and drink >many > > >times > > > and have been rejected. You know how much I hate typing. > > > > > > Mr Wise, lets meet and eat! :) > > > > > > > > > >From: "Bill Bequette" > > > >To: > > > >CC: , > > > >Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now > >offer > > >to > > > >you > > > >Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 16:27:55 -0700 > > > > > > > >Sorry, > > > >I didn't see the explanation below when I sent the other email. > >Well > > >if > > > >Bill does not agree with your viewpoint or seems to have >slandered > > >your > > > >name > > > >it may be because discussions about religion are a very >emotional > > >topic and > > > >even if you were correct you could not ask him to relinquish >his > > >"lifes > > > >values". You may be asking him to relinquish everything that >he > > >believes > > > >in > > > >i.e. his entire personality and vice versa. I don't believe >much > >is > > > >accomplished in discussing religion, or politics. Neither >party > >will > > >ever > > > >agree with the other in most cases. I am not refuting that I > >believe > > >in > > > >God > > > >by the above or that you or Bill are correct(I just don't have >the > > >time to > > > >review all your emails) just that some issues are better left >alone > > >if the > > > >goal is to convert the other based on the discussion at hand. > >Maybe > > >you > > > >should all get together and have a pizza and chill a little. I > >wish > > >you > > > >all > > > >well. Take Care, Bill B. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: DWise1@aol.com [mailto:DWise1@aol.com] > > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 2:56 PM > > > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net > > > > > Cc: dwise1@aol.com; editor@liberator.net; >billyjack1@hotmail.com > > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I >now > > >offer to > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill B., I understand that Bill Morgan (Bill M.) is your >friend, > > > > > but I would hope that that friendship would not prevent you >from > > > > > seeking the truth. I am not asking you to side with me >against > > > > > your friend, but rather that you side with the cause of > > > > > determining the truth of this matter. From my own > >fundamentalist > > > > > Christian training, I remember being taught that Christians >at > >to > > > > > serve the God of Truth, which Bill has echoed in his >published > > > > > writings by telling proselytization trainees that they serve > > > > > Truth. Unless fundamentalist Christian thought has changed > > > > > radically in the past few decades (besides the heavy > > > > > politization), I would expect you to also want to serve >Truth. > > > > > That is all that I ask, that you honor and apply those >Christian > > >values. > > > > > > > > > > In order to serve Truth, the facts must be examined. That >is > >why > > > > > I had CC:'d all those messages to you, so that you could >learn > > > > > something about what the situation here really is. That is >also > > > > > why I told you where you could find copies of the >correspondence > > > > > between Bill and me, so you could see for yourself what had >been > > > > > said and what was going on. > > > > > > > > > > Bill misled you to believe that this was a disagreement over > > > > > world-views and that I was closing my eyes to the facts. I >am > > > > > truly sorry to have to tell you this, but Bill lied to you. > > > > > World views had not had a chance to enter into the >discussion. > > > > > And I have steadfastly insisted that we examine the facts > >whereas > > > > > Bill has steadfastly refused to and is willfully preventing >our > > > > > examination of the facts. > > > > > > > > > > No, what the disagreement is over is that Bill has > > > > > libelled/slandered me and I am trying to resolve that >matter. > >He > > > > > has made several false accusations against me, saying that I >had > > > > > said or that I believe various horrible things. I am sure >that > >I > > > > > had never said such things to Bill or about Bill in print. >I > > > > > have repeatedly asked Bill to substantiate his accusations, >at > > > > > the very least he needs to tell me what I had said, as close >as > > > > > he can remember it. Bill steadfastly refuses. Until he > >provides > > > > > that information, we cannot know which messages to examine >in > > > > > order to arrive at the truth. > > > > > > > > > > In order to arrive at the truth in this matter, we need to > > > > > examine the facts, ie, what does Bill think I had said and >what > > > > > had I actually written? I have repeatedly called for > >examination > > > > > of the facts and Bill has steadfastly ignored those >requests. > > > > > Since I find it impossible to believe that he could have >missed > > > > > over 20 very clear requests (about 27 now, if we include > > > > > references to those requests), Bill must be withholding his > > > > > information willfully. That would mean that Bill is >willfully > > > > > opposing the Truth. Is that how a Christian is supposed to > > >behave? > > > > > > > > > > As I said, I am not asking you to side with me against Bill, >but > > > > > rather that you side with the Truth. I have just repeated >to > >you > > > > > what I see the situation as being. You can read the actual > > > > > transcript to see whether I am being truthful or Bill is. >Or > > > > > neither of us. > > > > > > > > > > In either case, we still need to resolve this matter. > > > > > Unfortunately, Bill is being intransigent. We need help. > > > > > > > > > > The actual role that I would like you to take is to try to > > > > > convince Bill to relinguish his information so that we can > > > > > finally examine the facts. What does he think I said to >insult > > > > > his wife? What "very nasty names" does he think I called >him? > > > > > At the end of this message, I will repeat the list of > >accusations > > > > > Bill made against me; at least he confirmed that he had >indeed > > > > > made those accusations. > > > > > > > > > > If you are unsuccessful in that endeavor, then at least try >to > > > > > get Bill to explain to you why he refuses to divulge that > > > > > information. Please remind him that if I had truly done the > > > > > things that he had accused me of, then we would find them >right > > > > > there in the record. > > > > > > > > > > Then if he refuses to give you that explanation, please ask >he > > > > > why he is afraid to have the facts examined in this case. > > > > > > > > > > Personally, I believe that Bill Morgan sees this mess as one >big > > > > > "rabbit trail" that he wants to milk for all that he can. >As > > > > > long as we are mired in this mess, we cannot have a >meaningful > > > > > discussion. About three years of correspondence with Bill >has > > > > > taught me that he is very evasive and will do almost >anything he > > > > > can to avoid having a meaningful discussion. Even break one >of > > > > > the Ten Commandments by bearing false witness. > > > > > > > > > > A list of a few of the false accusations Bill Morgan has >made > > > > > against me and refuses to substantiate follows: > > > > > > > > > > 1. Having conducted "bigoted attacks on [him] and [his] >wife" > > > > > > > > > > 2. Thinking he is "some evil wicked person out to destroy > > >society". > > > > > > > > > > 3. Thinking he is "wacked for beleiving in God". > > > > > > > > > > 4. "[P]ersonally insulting [him] on the level of a name >calling > > > > > 2nd grader." > > > > > > > > > > 5. "[I]nsulting [his] wife and [him]. > > > > > > > > > > 6. That my wife and I had labelled him and his wife as evil. > > > > > > > > > > 7. Calling him "very nasty names." > > > > > > > > > > 8. That I had told him "what [my] wife thought of those who > > > > > beleive in Gid". > > > > > > > > > > 9. That I would think he and his wife "are evil and wicked, >the > > > > > world's most sinister people". > > > > > > > > > > 10. That I refuse to meet him because of his beliefs. > > > > > > > > > > 11. That I sent electronically "many nasty words that were >anti > > > > > religious". > > > > > > > > > > Bill needs to either substantiate these accusations or else > > > > > acknowledge that they are false and offer a most sincere >apology > > > > > to all parties for having made those accusations and > >particularly > > > > > for having prevented the timely resolution of this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile >at > > > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > >http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-yh02.mx.aol.com (rly-yh02.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.34]) by air-yh04.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Sat, 30 Sep 2000 18:54:22 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (f80.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.80]) by rly-yh02.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Sat, 30 Sep 2000 18:53:48 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 30 Sep 2000 15:53:47 -0700 Received: from 205.188.193.179 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 30 Sep 2000 22:53:47 GMT X-Originating-IP: [205.188.193.179] From: "Bill Morgan" To: billbeq@mediaone.net, editor@liberator.net Cc: DWise1@aol.com Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 22:53:47 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Sep 2000 22:53:47.0867 (UTC) FILETIME=[4B095AB0:01C02B31] ################################################ Subj: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? Date: 01-Oct-00 06:19:28 Pacific Daylight Time From: editor@liberator.net (Mark) To: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan), billbeq@mediaone.net CC: DWise1@aol.com Bill Morgan , you wrote: "When you know the truth you are happy." Were you happy to learn that your personal savior is a character in a story? = ) Mark The Liberator E-Mail: editor@liberator.net Web Site: http://liberator.net/ >From: "Media One Mail" >To: "Bill Morgan" , >CC: >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:59:47 -0700 > >Bill have you ever noticed how unhappy some people are? Why is that? Bill >your real happy most the time! I think I know why!!!!! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Morgan > To: editor@liberator.net ; plasma@worldnet.att.net > Cc: DWise1@aol.com > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 7:08 AM > Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > I don't know about hype about exercising, I have always exercised. I >have > been busy watching the Olympics (really as back ground noise while doing > other vital things). Do gymnasts hate their bodies? Oh the humanity! > > > >From: "Mark" > >To: "Bill Morgan" , > >CC: > >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:16:24 -0500 > > > >Have you noticed all of this exorcism hype? First the Pope tries to > >exorcise a woman but fails. Next a priest is trained as an exorcist. >Then > >the film The Exorcist will be re-released soon. Coincidence? Nah.... > > > >People love fiction. It's entertaining.... > > > >Mark > >The Liberator > >E-Mail: editor@liberator.net > >Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Bill Morgan > >To: ; > >Cc: > >Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:08 PM > >Subject: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > > > >We will have a 6 foot long submarine sandwich and chips and stuff. >Please > >bring a liter bottle of your choice. > > > > > > >From: "Mark" > > >To: > > >CC: , > > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer >to > > >you > > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:52:56 -0500 > > > > > >If it's possible for fictional characters to love... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: .. > > > To: Bill Morgan ; DWise1@aol.com > > > Cc: editor@liberator.net > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:50 AM > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >offer > >to > > >you > > > > > > > > > Break bread and become friends!!!! It is amazing what a cup of pop >and > > >piece of pizza can accomplish! Jesus Loves You! > > > Bill > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Bill Morgan > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; DWise1@aol.com > > > Cc: editor@liberator.net > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:56 PM > > > Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now > >offer > > >to you > > > > > > > > > Bill, good point, I offered to meet Mr Wise for food and drink >many > > >times > > > and have been rejected. You know how much I hate typing. > > > > > > Mr Wise, lets meet and eat! :) > > > > > > > > > >From: "Bill Bequette" > > > >To: > > > >CC: , > > > >Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now > >offer > > >to > > > >you > > > >Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 16:27:55 -0700 > > > > > > > >Sorry, > > > >I didn't see the explanation below when I sent the other email. > >Well > > >if > > > >Bill does not agree with your viewpoint or seems to have >slandered > > >your > > > >name > > > >it may be because discussions about religion are a very >emotional > > >topic and > > > >even if you were correct you could not ask him to relinquish >his > > >"lifes > > > >values". You may be asking him to relinquish everything that >he > > >believes > > > >in > > > >i.e. his entire personality and vice versa. I don't believe >much > >is > > > >accomplished in discussing religion, or politics. Neither >party > >will > > >ever > > > >agree with the other in most cases. I am not refuting that I > >believe > > >in > > > >God > > > >by the above or that you or Bill are correct(I just don't have >the > > >time to > > > >review all your emails) just that some issues are better left >alone > > >if the > > > >goal is to convert the other based on the discussion at hand. > >Maybe > > >you > > > >should all get together and have a pizza and chill a little. I > >wish > > >you > > > >all > > > >well. Take Care, Bill B. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: DWise1@aol.com [mailto:DWise1@aol.com] > > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 2:56 PM > > > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net > > > > > Cc: dwise1@aol.com; editor@liberator.net; >billyjack1@hotmail.com > > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I >now > > >offer to > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill B., I understand that Bill Morgan (Bill M.) is your >friend, > > > > > but I would hope that that friendship would not prevent you >from > > > > > seeking the truth. I am not asking you to side with me >against > > > > > your friend, but rather that you side with the cause of > > > > > determining the truth of this matter. From my own > >fundamentalist > > > > > Christian training, I remember being taught that Christians >at > >to > > > > > serve the God of Truth, which Bill has echoed in his >published > > > > > writings by telling proselytization trainees that they serve > > > > > Truth. Unless fundamentalist Christian thought has changed > > > > > radically in the past few decades (besides the heavy > > > > > politization), I would expect you to also want to serve >Truth. > > > > > That is all that I ask, that you honor and apply those >Christian > > >values. > > > > > > > > > > In order to serve Truth, the facts must be examined. That >is > >why > > > > > I had CC:'d all those messages to you, so that you could >learn > > > > > something about what the situation here really is. That is >also > > > > > why I told you where you could find copies of the >correspondence > > > > > between Bill and me, so you could see for yourself what had >been > > > > > said and what was going on. > > > > > > > > > > Bill misled you to believe that this was a disagreement over > > > > > world-views and that I was closing my eyes to the facts. I >am > > > > > truly sorry to have to tell you this, but Bill lied to you. > > > > > World views had not had a chance to enter into the >discussion. > > > > > And I have steadfastly insisted that we examine the facts > >whereas > > > > > Bill has steadfastly refused to and is willfully preventing >our > > > > > examination of the facts. > > > > > > > > > > No, what the disagreement is over is that Bill has > > > > > libelled/slandered me and I am trying to resolve that >matter. > >He > > > > > has made several false accusations against me, saying that I >had > > > > > said or that I believe various horrible things. I am sure >that > >I > > > > > had never said such things to Bill or about Bill in print. >I > > > > > have repeatedly asked Bill to substantiate his accusations, >at > > > > > the very least he needs to tell me what I had said, as close >as > > > > > he can remember it. Bill steadfastly refuses. Until he > >provides > > > > > that information, we cannot know which messages to examine >in > > > > > order to arrive at the truth. > > > > > > > > > > In order to arrive at the truth in this matter, we need to > > > > > examine the facts, ie, what does Bill think I had said and >what > > > > > had I actually written? I have repeatedly called for > >examination > > > > > of the facts and Bill has steadfastly ignored those >requests. > > > > > Since I find it impossible to believe that he could have >missed > > > > > over 20 very clear requests (about 27 now, if we include > > > > > references to those requests), Bill must be withholding his > > > > > information willfully. That would mean that Bill is >willfully > > > > > opposing the Truth. Is that how a Christian is supposed to > > >behave? > > > > > > > > > > As I said, I am not asking you to side with me against Bill, >but > > > > > rather that you side with the Truth. I have just repeated >to > >you > > > > > what I see the situation as being. You can read the actual > > > > > transcript to see whether I am being truthful or Bill is. >Or > > > > > neither of us. > > > > > > > > > > In either case, we still need to resolve this matter. > > > > > Unfortunately, Bill is being intransigent. We need help. > > > > > > > > > > The actual role that I would like you to take is to try to > > > > > convince Bill to relinguish his information so that we can > > > > > finally examine the facts. What does he think I said to >insult > > > > > his wife? What "very nasty names" does he think I called >him? > > > > > At the end of this message, I will repeat the list of > >accusations > > > > > Bill made against me; at least he confirmed that he had >indeed > > > > > made those accusations. > > > > > > > > > > If you are unsuccessful in that endeavor, then at least try >to > > > > > get Bill to explain to you why he refuses to divulge that > > > > > information. Please remind him that if I had truly done the > > > > > things that he had accused me of, then we would find them >right > > > > > there in the record. > > > > > > > > > > Then if he refuses to give you that explanation, please ask >he > > > > > why he is afraid to have the facts examined in this case. > > > > > > > > > > Personally, I believe that Bill Morgan sees this mess as one >big > > > > > "rabbit trail" that he wants to milk for all that he can. >As > > > > > long as we are mired in this mess, we cannot have a >meaningful > > > > > discussion. About three years of correspondence with Bill >has > > > > > taught me that he is very evasive and will do almost >anything he > > > > > can to avoid having a meaningful discussion. Even break one >of > > > > > the Ten Commandments by bearing false witness. > > > > > > > > > > A list of a few of the false accusations Bill Morgan has >made > > > > > against me and refuses to substantiate follows: > > > > > > > > > > 1. Having conducted "bigoted attacks on [him] and [his] >wife" > > > > > > > > > > 2. Thinking he is "some evil wicked person out to destroy > > >society". > > > > > > > > > > 3. Thinking he is "wacked for beleiving in God". > > > > > > > > > > 4. "[P]ersonally insulting [him] on the level of a name >calling > > > > > 2nd grader." > > > > > > > > > > 5. "[I]nsulting [his] wife and [him]. > > > > > > > > > > 6. That my wife and I had labelled him and his wife as evil. > > > > > > > > > > 7. Calling him "very nasty names." > > > > > > > > > > 8. That I had told him "what [my] wife thought of those who > > > > > beleive in Gid". > > > > > > > > > > 9. That I would think he and his wife "are evil and wicked, >the > > > > > world's most sinister people". > > > > > > > > > > 10. That I refuse to meet him because of his beliefs. > > > > > > > > > > 11. That I sent electronically "many nasty words that were >anti > > > > > religious". > > > > > > > > > > Bill needs to either substantiate these accusations or else > > > > > acknowledge that they are false and offer a most sincere >apology > > > > > to all parties for having made those accusations and > >particularly > > > > > for having prevented the timely resolution of this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile >at > > > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > >http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-za03.mx.aol.com (rly-za03.mail.aol.com [172.31.36.99]) by air-za04.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Sun, 01 Oct 2000 09:19:27 -0400 Received: from uucphost.mcs.net (kitten2.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by rly-za03.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Sun, 01 Oct 2000 09:19:12 -0400 Received: from liber8r (liber8r.pr.mcs.net [199.3.42.5]) by uucphost.mcs.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA46733; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 08:19:07 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from editor@liberator.net) Message-ID: <002701c02baa$6a8c7b00$052a03c7@liber8r> From: "Mark" To: "Bill Morgan" , Cc: References: Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 08:20:48 -0500 Organization: n/a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 ################################################ Subj: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? Date: 01-Oct-00 14:35:23 Pacific Daylight Time From: billbeq@mediaone.net (Bill Bequette) To: editor@liberator.net (Mark), billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan) CC: DWise1@aol.com Believe what you want and I will believe what I want. :) John 3:16 Bill -----Original Message----- From: Mark To: Bill Morgan ; billbeq@mediaone.net Cc: DWise1@aol.com Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000 6:19 AM Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? >Bill Morgan , you wrote: > >"When you know the truth you are happy." > >Were you happy to learn that your personal savior is a character in a story? > >= ) > >Mark >The Liberator >E-Mail: editor@liberator.net >Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > > >>From: "Media One Mail" >>To: "Bill Morgan" , >>CC: >>Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? >>Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:59:47 -0700 >> >>Bill have you ever noticed how unhappy some people are? Why is that? Bill >>your real happy most the time! I think I know why!!!!! >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Bill Morgan >> To: editor@liberator.net ; plasma@worldnet.att.net >> Cc: DWise1@aol.com >> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 7:08 AM >> Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? >> >> >> I don't know about hype about exercising, I have always exercised. I >>have >> been busy watching the Olympics (really as back ground noise while doing >> other vital things). Do gymnasts hate their bodies? Oh the humanity! >> >> >> >From: "Mark" >> >To: "Bill Morgan" , >> >CC: >> >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? >> >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:16:24 -0500 >> > >> >Have you noticed all of this exorcism hype? First the Pope tries to >> >exorcise a woman but fails. Next a priest is trained as an exorcist. >>Then >> >the film The Exorcist will be re-released soon. Coincidence? Nah.... >> > >> >People love fiction. It's entertaining.... >> > >> >Mark >> >The Liberator >> >E-Mail: editor@liberator.net >> >Web Site: http://liberator.net/ >> > >> > >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: Bill Morgan >> >To: ; >> >Cc: >> >Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:08 PM >> >Subject: What do dogs have bad dreams about? >> > >> > >> >We will have a 6 foot long submarine sandwich and chips and stuff. >>Please >> >bring a liter bottle of your choice. >> > >> > >> > >From: "Mark" >> > >To: >> > >CC: , >> > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now offer >>to >> > >you >> > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:52:56 -0500 >> > > >> > >If it's possible for fictional characters to love... >> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > From: .. >> > > To: Bill Morgan ; DWise1@aol.com >> > > Cc: editor@liberator.net >> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:50 AM >> > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >>offer >> >to >> > >you >> > > >> > > >> > > Break bread and become friends!!!! It is amazing what a cup of pop >>and >> > >piece of pizza can accomplish! Jesus Loves You! >> > > Bill >> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > From: Bill Morgan >> > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; DWise1@aol.com >> > > Cc: editor@liberator.net >> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:56 PM >> > > Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >> >offer >> > >to you >> > > >> > > >> > > Bill, good point, I offered to meet Mr Wise for food and drink >>many >> > >times >> > > and have been rejected. You know how much I hate typing. >> > > >> > > Mr Wise, lets meet and eat! :) >> > > >> > > >> > > >From: "Bill Bequette" >> > > >To: >> > > >CC: , >> > > >Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >> >offer >> > >to >> > > >you >> > > >Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 16:27:55 -0700 >> > > > >> > > >Sorry, >> > > >I didn't see the explanation below when I sent the other email. >> >Well >> > >if >> > > >Bill does not agree with your viewpoint or seems to have >>slandered >> > >your >> > > >name >> > > >it may be because discussions about religion are a very >>emotional >> > >topic and >> > > >even if you were correct you could not ask him to relinquish >>his >> > >"lifes >> > > >values". You may be asking him to relinquish everything that >>he >> > >believes >> > > >in >> > > >i.e. his entire personality and vice versa. I don't believe >>much >> >is >> > > >accomplished in discussing religion, or politics. Neither >>party >> >will >> > >ever >> > > >agree with the other in most cases. I am not refuting that I >> >believe >> > >in >> > > >God >> > > >by the above or that you or Bill are correct(I just don't have >>the >> > >time to >> > > >review all your emails) just that some issues are better left >>alone >> > >if the >> > > >goal is to convert the other based on the discussion at hand. >> >Maybe >> > >you >> > > >should all get together and have a pizza and chill a little. I >> >wish >> > >you >> > > >all >> > > >well. Take Care, Bill B. >> > > > >> > > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > > > From: DWise1@aol.com [mailto:DWise1@aol.com] >> > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 2:56 PM >> > > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net >> > > > > Cc: dwise1@aol.com; editor@liberator.net; >>billyjack1@hotmail.com >> > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I >>now >> > >offer to >> > > > > you >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Bill B., I understand that Bill Morgan (Bill M.) is your >>friend, >> > > > > but I would hope that that friendship would not prevent you >>from >> > > > > seeking the truth. I am not asking you to side with me >>against >> > > > > your friend, but rather that you side with the cause of >> > > > > determining the truth of this matter. From my own >> >fundamentalist >> > > > > Christian training, I remember being taught that Christians >>at >> >to >> > > > > serve the God of Truth, which Bill has echoed in his >>published >> > > > > writings by telling proselytization trainees that they serve >> > > > > Truth. Unless fundamentalist Christian thought has changed >> > > > > radically in the past few decades (besides the heavy >> > > > > politization), I would expect you to also want to serve >>Truth. >> > > > > That is all that I ask, that you honor and apply those >>Christian >> > >values. >> > > > > >> > > > > In order to serve Truth, the facts must be examined. That >>is >> >why >> > > > > I had CC:'d all those messages to you, so that you could >>learn >> > > > > something about what the situation here really is. That is >>also >> > > > > why I told you where you could find copies of the >>correspondence >> > > > > between Bill and me, so you could see for yourself what had >>been >> > > > > said and what was going on. >> > > > > >> > > > > Bill misled you to believe that this was a disagreement over >> > > > > world-views and that I was closing my eyes to the facts. I >>am >> > > > > truly sorry to have to tell you this, but Bill lied to you. >> > > > > World views had not had a chance to enter into the >>discussion. >> > > > > And I have steadfastly insisted that we examine the facts >> >whereas >> > > > > Bill has steadfastly refused to and is willfully preventing >>our >> > > > > examination of the facts. >> > > > > >> > > > > No, what the disagreement is over is that Bill has >> > > > > libelled/slandered me and I am trying to resolve that >>matter. >> >He >> > > > > has made several false accusations against me, saying that I >>had >> > > > > said or that I believe various horrible things. I am sure >>that >> >I >> > > > > had never said such things to Bill or about Bill in print. >>I >> > > > > have repeatedly asked Bill to substantiate his accusations, >>at >> > > > > the very least he needs to tell me what I had said, as close >>as >> > > > > he can remember it. Bill steadfastly refuses. Until he >> >provides >> > > > > that information, we cannot know which messages to examine >>in >> > > > > order to arrive at the truth. >> > > > > >> > > > > In order to arrive at the truth in this matter, we need to >> > > > > examine the facts, ie, what does Bill think I had said and >>what >> > > > > had I actually written? I have repeatedly called for >> >examination >> > > > > of the facts and Bill has steadfastly ignored those >>requests. >> > > > > Since I find it impossible to believe that he could have >>missed >> > > > > over 20 very clear requests (about 27 now, if we include >> > > > > references to those requests), Bill must be withholding his >> > > > > information willfully. That would mean that Bill is >>willfully >> > > > > opposing the Truth. Is that how a Christian is supposed to >> > >behave? >> > > > > >> > > > > As I said, I am not asking you to side with me against Bill, >>but >> > > > > rather that you side with the Truth. I have just repeated >>to >> >you >> > > > > what I see the situation as being. You can read the actual >> > > > > transcript to see whether I am being truthful or Bill is. >>Or >> > > > > neither of us. >> > > > > >> > > > > In either case, we still need to resolve this matter. >> > > > > Unfortunately, Bill is being intransigent. We need help. >> > > > > >> > > > > The actual role that I would like you to take is to try to >> > > > > convince Bill to relinguish his information so that we can >> > > > > finally examine the facts. What does he think I said to >>insult >> > > > > his wife? What "very nasty names" does he think I called >>him? >> > > > > At the end of this message, I will repeat the list of >> >accusations >> > > > > Bill made against me; at least he confirmed that he had >>indeed >> > > > > made those accusations. >> > > > > >> > > > > If you are unsuccessful in that endeavor, then at least try >>to >> > > > > get Bill to explain to you why he refuses to divulge that >> > > > > information. Please remind him that if I had truly done the >> > > > > things that he had accused me of, then we would find them >>right >> > > > > there in the record. >> > > > > >> > > > > Then if he refuses to give you that explanation, please ask >>he >> > > > > why he is afraid to have the facts examined in this case. >> > > > > >> > > > > Personally, I believe that Bill Morgan sees this mess as one >>big >> > > > > "rabbit trail" that he wants to milk for all that he can. >>As >> > > > > long as we are mired in this mess, we cannot have a >>meaningful >> > > > > discussion. About three years of correspondence with Bill >>has >> > > > > taught me that he is very evasive and will do almost >>anything he >> > > > > can to avoid having a meaningful discussion. Even break one >>of >> > > > > the Ten Commandments by bearing false witness. >> > > > > >> > > > > A list of a few of the false accusations Bill Morgan has >>made >> > > > > against me and refuses to substantiate follows: >> > > > > >> > > > > 1. Having conducted "bigoted attacks on [him] and [his] >>wife" >> > > > > >> > > > > 2. Thinking he is "some evil wicked person out to destroy >> > >society". >> > > > > >> > > > > 3. Thinking he is "wacked for beleiving in God". >> > > > > >> > > > > 4. "[P]ersonally insulting [him] on the level of a name >>calling >> > > > > 2nd grader." >> > > > > >> > > > > 5. "[I]nsulting [his] wife and [him]. >> > > > > >> > > > > 6. That my wife and I had labelled him and his wife as evil. >> > > > > >> > > > > 7. Calling him "very nasty names." >> > > > > >> > > > > 8. That I had told him "what [my] wife thought of those who >> > > > > beleive in Gid". >> > > > > >> > > > > 9. That I would think he and his wife "are evil and wicked, >>the >> > > > > world's most sinister people". >> > > > > >> > > > > 10. That I refuse to meet him because of his beliefs. >> > > > > >> > > > > 11. That I sent electronically "many nasty words that were >>anti >> > > > > religious". >> > > > > >> > > > > Bill needs to either substantiate these accusations or else >> > > > > acknowledge that they are false and offer a most sincere >>apology >> > > > > to all parties for having made those accusations and >> >particularly >> > > > > for having prevented the timely resolution of this matter. >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >_________________________________________________________________________ >> > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >> > >http://www.hotmail.com. >> > > >> > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile >>at >> > > http://profiles.msn.com. >> > > >> > >> >> >_________________________________________________________________________ >> >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >>http://www.hotmail.com. >> > >> >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >> >http://profiles.msn.com. >> > >> > >> > >> >> >>_________________________________________________________________________ >> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >>http://www.hotmail.com. >> >> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >> http://profiles.msn.com. >> > >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >http://profiles.msn.com. > > > ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-zb03.mx.aol.com (rly-zb03.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.3]) by air-zb04.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Sun, 01 Oct 2000 17:35:23 -0400 Received: from lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (lsmls01.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.20]) by rly-zb03.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Sun, 01 Oct 2000 17:35:03 -0400 Received: from wb (we-24-130-113-13.we.mediaone.net [24.130.113.13]) by lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA10821; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 14:35:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001001c02bf0$20340780$5a45fea9@wb.we.mediaone.net> From: "Bill Bequette" To: "Mark" , "Bill Morgan" Cc: Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 14:39:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 ################################################ Subj: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? Date: 01-Oct-00 15:22:07 Pacific Daylight Time From: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan) To: editor@liberator.net, billbeq@mediaone.net CC: DWise1@aol.com Mark: why did you ignore my e mail which truthfully pointed out that if Jesus was a fake why would you hate something that is fake and spend so much time angry about it? >From: "Mark" >To: "Bill Morgan" , >CC: >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? >Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 08:20:48 -0500 > >Bill Morgan , you wrote: > >"When you know the truth you are happy." > >Were you happy to learn that your personal savior is a character in a >story? > >= ) > >Mark >The Liberator >E-Mail: editor@liberator.net >Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > > > >From: "Media One Mail" > >To: "Bill Morgan" , > >CC: > >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:59:47 -0700 > > > >Bill have you ever noticed how unhappy some people are? Why is that? >Bill > >your real happy most the time! I think I know why!!!!! > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Bill Morgan > > To: editor@liberator.net ; plasma@worldnet.att.net > > Cc: DWise1@aol.com > > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 7:08 AM > > Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > > > > I don't know about hype about exercising, I have always exercised. I > >have > > been busy watching the Olympics (really as back ground noise while >doing > > other vital things). Do gymnasts hate their bodies? Oh the humanity! > > > > > > >From: "Mark" > > >To: "Bill Morgan" , > > >CC: > > >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:16:24 -0500 > > > > > >Have you noticed all of this exorcism hype? First the Pope tries to > > >exorcise a woman but fails. Next a priest is trained as an exorcist. > >Then > > >the film The Exorcist will be re-released soon. Coincidence? >Nah.... > > > > > >People love fiction. It's entertaining.... > > > > > >Mark > > >The Liberator > > >E-Mail: editor@liberator.net > > >Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: Bill Morgan > > >To: ; > > >Cc: > > >Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:08 PM > > >Subject: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > > > > > > >We will have a 6 foot long submarine sandwich and chips and stuff. > >Please > > >bring a liter bottle of your choice. > > > > > > > > > >From: "Mark" > > > >To: > > > >CC: , > > > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >offer > >to > > > >you > > > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:52:56 -0500 > > > > > > > >If it's possible for fictional characters to love... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: .. > > > > To: Bill Morgan ; DWise1@aol.com > > > > Cc: editor@liberator.net > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:50 AM > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now > >offer > > >to > > > >you > > > > > > > > > > > > Break bread and become friends!!!! It is amazing what a cup of >pop > >and > > > >piece of pizza can accomplish! Jesus Loves You! > > > > Bill > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Bill Morgan > > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; DWise1@aol.com > > > > Cc: editor@liberator.net > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:56 PM > > > > Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I >now > > >offer > > > >to you > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, good point, I offered to meet Mr Wise for food and drink > >many > > > >times > > > > and have been rejected. You know how much I hate typing. > > > > > > > > Mr Wise, lets meet and eat! :) > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Bill Bequette" > > > > >To: > > > > >CC: , > > > > >Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I >now > > >offer > > > >to > > > > >you > > > > >Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 16:27:55 -0700 > > > > > > > > > >Sorry, > > > > >I didn't see the explanation below when I sent the other >email. > > >Well > > > >if > > > > >Bill does not agree with your viewpoint or seems to have > >slandered > > > >your > > > > >name > > > > >it may be because discussions about religion are a very > >emotional > > > >topic and > > > > >even if you were correct you could not ask him to relinquish > >his > > > >"lifes > > > > >values". You may be asking him to relinquish everything that > >he > > > >believes > > > > >in > > > > >i.e. his entire personality and vice versa. I don't believe > >much > > >is > > > > >accomplished in discussing religion, or politics. Neither > >party > > >will > > > >ever > > > > >agree with the other in most cases. I am not refuting that I > > >believe > > > >in > > > > >God > > > > >by the above or that you or Bill are correct(I just don't >have > >the > > > >time to > > > > >review all your emails) just that some issues are better left > >alone > > > >if the > > > > >goal is to convert the other based on the discussion at hand. > > >Maybe > > > >you > > > > >should all get together and have a pizza and chill a little. >I > > >wish > > > >you > > > > >all > > > > >well. Take Care, Bill B. > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: DWise1@aol.com [mailto:DWise1@aol.com] > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 2:56 PM > > > > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net > > > > > > Cc: dwise1@aol.com; editor@liberator.net; > >billyjack1@hotmail.com > > > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which >I > >now > > > >offer to > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill B., I understand that Bill Morgan (Bill M.) is your > >friend, > > > > > > but I would hope that that friendship would not prevent >you > >from > > > > > > seeking the truth. I am not asking you to side with me > >against > > > > > > your friend, but rather that you side with the cause of > > > > > > determining the truth of this matter. From my own > > >fundamentalist > > > > > > Christian training, I remember being taught that >Christians > >at > > >to > > > > > > serve the God of Truth, which Bill has echoed in his > >published > > > > > > writings by telling proselytization trainees that they >serve > > > > > > Truth. Unless fundamentalist Christian thought has >changed > > > > > > radically in the past few decades (besides the heavy > > > > > > politization), I would expect you to also want to serve > >Truth. > > > > > > That is all that I ask, that you honor and apply those > >Christian > > > >values. > > > > > > > > > > > > In order to serve Truth, the facts must be examined. That > >is > > >why > > > > > > I had CC:'d all those messages to you, so that you could > >learn > > > > > > something about what the situation here really is. That >is > >also > > > > > > why I told you where you could find copies of the > >correspondence > > > > > > between Bill and me, so you could see for yourself what >had > >been > > > > > > said and what was going on. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill misled you to believe that this was a disagreement >over > > > > > > world-views and that I was closing my eyes to the facts. >I > >am > > > > > > truly sorry to have to tell you this, but Bill lied to >you. > > > > > > World views had not had a chance to enter into the > >discussion. > > > > > > And I have steadfastly insisted that we examine the facts > > >whereas > > > > > > Bill has steadfastly refused to and is willfully >preventing > >our > > > > > > examination of the facts. > > > > > > > > > > > > No, what the disagreement is over is that Bill has > > > > > > libelled/slandered me and I am trying to resolve that > >matter. > > >He > > > > > > has made several false accusations against me, saying that >I > >had > > > > > > said or that I believe various horrible things. I am sure > >that > > >I > > > > > > had never said such things to Bill or about Bill in print. > >I > > > > > > have repeatedly asked Bill to substantiate his >accusations, > >at > > > > > > the very least he needs to tell me what I had said, as >close > >as > > > > > > he can remember it. Bill steadfastly refuses. Until he > > >provides > > > > > > that information, we cannot know which messages to examine > >in > > > > > > order to arrive at the truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > In order to arrive at the truth in this matter, we need to > > > > > > examine the facts, ie, what does Bill think I had said and > >what > > > > > > had I actually written? I have repeatedly called for > > >examination > > > > > > of the facts and Bill has steadfastly ignored those > >requests. > > > > > > Since I find it impossible to believe that he could have > >missed > > > > > > over 20 very clear requests (about 27 now, if we include > > > > > > references to those requests), Bill must be withholding >his > > > > > > information willfully. That would mean that Bill is > >willfully > > > > > > opposing the Truth. Is that how a Christian is supposed >to > > > >behave? > > > > > > > > > > > > As I said, I am not asking you to side with me against >Bill, > >but > > > > > > rather that you side with the Truth. I have just repeated > >to > > >you > > > > > > what I see the situation as being. You can read the >actual > > > > > > transcript to see whether I am being truthful or Bill is. > >Or > > > > > > neither of us. > > > > > > > > > > > > In either case, we still need to resolve this matter. > > > > > > Unfortunately, Bill is being intransigent. We need help. > > > > > > > > > > > > The actual role that I would like you to take is to try to > > > > > > convince Bill to relinguish his information so that we can > > > > > > finally examine the facts. What does he think I said to > >insult > > > > > > his wife? What "very nasty names" does he think I called > >him? > > > > > > At the end of this message, I will repeat the list of > > >accusations > > > > > > Bill made against me; at least he confirmed that he had > >indeed > > > > > > made those accusations. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are unsuccessful in that endeavor, then at least >try > >to > > > > > > get Bill to explain to you why he refuses to divulge that > > > > > > information. Please remind him that if I had truly done >the > > > > > > things that he had accused me of, then we would find them > >right > > > > > > there in the record. > > > > > > > > > > > > Then if he refuses to give you that explanation, please >ask > >he > > > > > > why he is afraid to have the facts examined in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > Personally, I believe that Bill Morgan sees this mess as >one > >big > > > > > > "rabbit trail" that he wants to milk for all that he can. > >As > > > > > > long as we are mired in this mess, we cannot have a > >meaningful > > > > > > discussion. About three years of correspondence with Bill > >has > > > > > > taught me that he is very evasive and will do almost > >anything he > > > > > > can to avoid having a meaningful discussion. Even break >one > >of > > > > > > the Ten Commandments by bearing false witness. > > > > > > > > > > > > A list of a few of the false accusations Bill Morgan has > >made > > > > > > against me and refuses to substantiate follows: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Having conducted "bigoted attacks on [him] and [his] > >wife" > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Thinking he is "some evil wicked person out to destroy > > > >society". > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. Thinking he is "wacked for beleiving in God". > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. "[P]ersonally insulting [him] on the level of a name > >calling > > > > > > 2nd grader." > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. "[I]nsulting [his] wife and [him]. > > > > > > > > > > > > 6. That my wife and I had labelled him and his wife as >evil. > > > > > > > > > > > > 7. Calling him "very nasty names." > > > > > > > > > > > > 8. That I had told him "what [my] wife thought of those >who > > > > > > beleive in Gid". > > > > > > > > > > > > 9. That I would think he and his wife "are evil and >wicked, > >the > > > > > > world's most sinister people". > > > > > > > > > > > > 10. That I refuse to meet him because of his beliefs. > > > > > > > > > > > > 11. That I sent electronically "many nasty words that were > >anti > > > > > > religious". > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill needs to either substantiate these accusations or >else > > > > > > acknowledge that they are false and offer a most sincere > >apology > > > > > > to all parties for having made those accusations and > > >particularly > > > > > > for having prevented the timely resolution of this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > > > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public >profile > >at > > > > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > > >http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >http://profiles.msn.com. > > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-zd01.mx.aol.com (rly-zd01.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.225]) by air-zd03.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Sun, 01 Oct 2000 18:22:07 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (f144.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.144]) by rly-zd01.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Sun, 01 Oct 2000 18:21:43 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 15:21:43 -0700 Received: from 205.188.197.28 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 01 Oct 2000 22:21:42 GMT X-Originating-IP: [205.188.197.28] From: "Bill Morgan" To: editor@liberator.net, billbeq@mediaone.net Cc: DWise1@aol.com Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 22:21:42 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Oct 2000 22:21:43.0172 (UTC) FILETIME=[FA3DF440:01C02BF5] ################################################ Subj: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? Date: 01-Oct-00 15:53:52 Pacific Daylight Time From: billbeq@mediaone.net (Bill Bequette) To: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan), editor@liberator.net CC: DWise1@aol.com Well the historical evidence proves that Jesus was a real person where miracles occurred. If you don't want to believe and accept the fact that the Lord loves you then that is your decision. But don't make false statements. It just makes you look bad. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Morgan To: editor@liberator.net ; billbeq@mediaone.net Cc: DWise1@aol.com Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000 3:22 PM Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? >Mark: why did you ignore my e mail which truthfully pointed out that if >Jesus was a fake why would you hate something that is fake and spend so much >time angry about it? > > >>From: "Mark" >>To: "Bill Morgan" , >>CC: >>Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? >>Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 08:20:48 -0500 >> >>Bill Morgan , you wrote: >> >>"When you know the truth you are happy." >> >>Were you happy to learn that your personal savior is a character in a >>story? >> >>= ) >> >>Mark >>The Liberator >>E-Mail: editor@liberator.net >>Web Site: http://liberator.net/ >> >> >> >From: "Media One Mail" >> >To: "Bill Morgan" , >> >CC: >> >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? >> >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:59:47 -0700 >> > >> >Bill have you ever noticed how unhappy some people are? Why is that? >>Bill >> >your real happy most the time! I think I know why!!!!! >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: Bill Morgan >> > To: editor@liberator.net ; plasma@worldnet.att.net >> > Cc: DWise1@aol.com >> > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 7:08 AM >> > Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? >> > >> > >> > I don't know about hype about exercising, I have always exercised. I >> >have >> > been busy watching the Olympics (really as back ground noise while >>doing >> > other vital things). Do gymnasts hate their bodies? Oh the humanity! >> > >> > >> > >From: "Mark" >> > >To: "Bill Morgan" , >> > >CC: >> > >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? >> > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:16:24 -0500 >> > > >> > >Have you noticed all of this exorcism hype? First the Pope tries to >> > >exorcise a woman but fails. Next a priest is trained as an exorcist. >> >Then >> > >the film The Exorcist will be re-released soon. Coincidence? >>Nah.... >> > > >> > >People love fiction. It's entertaining.... >> > > >> > >Mark >> > >The Liberator >> > >E-Mail: editor@liberator.net >> > >Web Site: http://liberator.net/ >> > > >> > > >> > >----- Original Message ----- >> > >From: Bill Morgan >> > >To: ; >> > >Cc: >> > >Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:08 PM >> > >Subject: What do dogs have bad dreams about? >> > > >> > > >> > >We will have a 6 foot long submarine sandwich and chips and stuff. >> >Please >> > >bring a liter bottle of your choice. >> > > >> > > >> > > >From: "Mark" >> > > >To: >> > > >CC: , >> > > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >>offer >> >to >> > > >you >> > > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:52:56 -0500 >> > > > >> > > >If it's possible for fictional characters to love... >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > > From: .. >> > > > To: Bill Morgan ; DWise1@aol.com >> > > > Cc: editor@liberator.net >> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:50 AM >> > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now >> >offer >> > >to >> > > >you >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Break bread and become friends!!!! It is amazing what a cup of >>pop >> >and >> > > >piece of pizza can accomplish! Jesus Loves You! >> > > > Bill >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > > From: Bill Morgan >> > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; DWise1@aol.com >> > > > Cc: editor@liberator.net >> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:56 PM >> > > > Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I >>now >> > >offer >> > > >to you >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Bill, good point, I offered to meet Mr Wise for food and drink >> >many >> > > >times >> > > > and have been rejected. You know how much I hate typing. >> > > > >> > > > Mr Wise, lets meet and eat! :) >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >From: "Bill Bequette" >> > > > >To: >> > > > >CC: , >> > > > >Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I >>now >> > >offer >> > > >to >> > > > >you >> > > > >Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 16:27:55 -0700 >> > > > > >> > > > >Sorry, >> > > > >I didn't see the explanation below when I sent the other >>email. >> > >Well >> > > >if >> > > > >Bill does not agree with your viewpoint or seems to have >> >slandered >> > > >your >> > > > >name >> > > > >it may be because discussions about religion are a very >> >emotional >> > > >topic and >> > > > >even if you were correct you could not ask him to relinquish >> >his >> > > >"lifes >> > > > >values". You may be asking him to relinquish everything that >> >he >> > > >believes >> > > > >in >> > > > >i.e. his entire personality and vice versa. I don't believe >> >much >> > >is >> > > > >accomplished in discussing religion, or politics. Neither >> >party >> > >will >> > > >ever >> > > > >agree with the other in most cases. I am not refuting that I >> > >believe >> > > >in >> > > > >God >> > > > >by the above or that you or Bill are correct(I just don't >>have >> >the >> > > >time to >> > > > >review all your emails) just that some issues are better left >> >alone >> > > >if the >> > > > >goal is to convert the other based on the discussion at hand. >> > >Maybe >> > > >you >> > > > >should all get together and have a pizza and chill a little. >>I >> > >wish >> > > >you >> > > > >all >> > > > >well. Take Care, Bill B. >> > > > > >> > > > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > > > > From: DWise1@aol.com [mailto:DWise1@aol.com] >> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 2:56 PM >> > > > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net >> > > > > > Cc: dwise1@aol.com; editor@liberator.net; >> >billyjack1@hotmail.com >> > > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which >>I >> >now >> > > >offer to >> > > > > > you >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Bill B., I understand that Bill Morgan (Bill M.) is your >> >friend, >> > > > > > but I would hope that that friendship would not prevent >>you >> >from >> > > > > > seeking the truth. I am not asking you to side with me >> >against >> > > > > > your friend, but rather that you side with the cause of >> > > > > > determining the truth of this matter. From my own >> > >fundamentalist >> > > > > > Christian training, I remember being taught that >>Christians >> >at >> > >to >> > > > > > serve the God of Truth, which Bill has echoed in his >> >published >> > > > > > writings by telling proselytization trainees that they >>serve >> > > > > > Truth. Unless fundamentalist Christian thought has >>changed >> > > > > > radically in the past few decades (besides the heavy >> > > > > > politization), I would expect you to also want to serve >> >Truth. >> > > > > > That is all that I ask, that you honor and apply those >> >Christian >> > > >values. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > In order to serve Truth, the facts must be examined. That >> >is >> > >why >> > > > > > I had CC:'d all those messages to you, so that you could >> >learn >> > > > > > something about what the situation here really is. That >>is >> >also >> > > > > > why I told you where you could find copies of the >> >correspondence >> > > > > > between Bill and me, so you could see for yourself what >>had >> >been >> > > > > > said and what was going on. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Bill misled you to believe that this was a disagreement >>over >> > > > > > world-views and that I was closing my eyes to the facts. >>I >> >am >> > > > > > truly sorry to have to tell you this, but Bill lied to >>you. >> > > > > > World views had not had a chance to enter into the >> >discussion. >> > > > > > And I have steadfastly insisted that we examine the facts >> > >whereas >> > > > > > Bill has steadfastly refused to and is willfully >>preventing >> >our >> > > > > > examination of the facts. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > No, what the disagreement is over is that Bill has >> > > > > > libelled/slandered me and I am trying to resolve that >> >matter. >> > >He >> > > > > > has made several false accusations against me, saying that >>I >> >had >> > > > > > said or that I believe various horrible things. I am sure >> >that >> > >I >> > > > > > had never said such things to Bill or about Bill in print. >> >I >> > > > > > have repeatedly asked Bill to substantiate his >>accusations, >> >at >> > > > > > the very least he needs to tell me what I had said, as >>close >> >as >> > > > > > he can remember it. Bill steadfastly refuses. Until he >> > >provides >> > > > > > that information, we cannot know which messages to examine >> >in >> > > > > > order to arrive at the truth. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > In order to arrive at the truth in this matter, we need to >> > > > > > examine the facts, ie, what does Bill think I had said and >> >what >> > > > > > had I actually written? I have repeatedly called for >> > >examination >> > > > > > of the facts and Bill has steadfastly ignored those >> >requests. >> > > > > > Since I find it impossible to believe that he could have >> >missed >> > > > > > over 20 very clear requests (about 27 now, if we include >> > > > > > references to those requests), Bill must be withholding >>his >> > > > > > information willfully. That would mean that Bill is >> >willfully >> > > > > > opposing the Truth. Is that how a Christian is supposed >>to >> > > >behave? >> > > > > > >> > > > > > As I said, I am not asking you to side with me against >>Bill, >> >but >> > > > > > rather that you side with the Truth. I have just repeated >> >to >> > >you >> > > > > > what I see the situation as being. You can read the >>actual >> > > > > > transcript to see whether I am being truthful or Bill is. >> >Or >> > > > > > neither of us. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > In either case, we still need to resolve this matter. >> > > > > > Unfortunately, Bill is being intransigent. We need help. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > The actual role that I would like you to take is to try to >> > > > > > convince Bill to relinguish his information so that we can >> > > > > > finally examine the facts. What does he think I said to >> >insult >> > > > > > his wife? What "very nasty names" does he think I called >> >him? >> > > > > > At the end of this message, I will repeat the list of >> > >accusations >> > > > > > Bill made against me; at least he confirmed that he had >> >indeed >> > > > > > made those accusations. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > If you are unsuccessful in that endeavor, then at least >>try >> >to >> > > > > > get Bill to explain to you why he refuses to divulge that >> > > > > > information. Please remind him that if I had truly done >>the >> > > > > > things that he had accused me of, then we would find them >> >right >> > > > > > there in the record. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Then if he refuses to give you that explanation, please >>ask >> >he >> > > > > > why he is afraid to have the facts examined in this case. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Personally, I believe that Bill Morgan sees this mess as >>one >> >big >> > > > > > "rabbit trail" that he wants to milk for all that he can. >> >As >> > > > > > long as we are mired in this mess, we cannot have a >> >meaningful >> > > > > > discussion. About three years of correspondence with Bill >> >has >> > > > > > taught me that he is very evasive and will do almost >> >anything he >> > > > > > can to avoid having a meaningful discussion. Even break >>one >> >of >> > > > > > the Ten Commandments by bearing false witness. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > A list of a few of the false accusations Bill Morgan has >> >made >> > > > > > against me and refuses to substantiate follows: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > 1. Having conducted "bigoted attacks on [him] and [his] >> >wife" >> > > > > > >> > > > > > 2. Thinking he is "some evil wicked person out to destroy >> > > >society". >> > > > > > >> > > > > > 3. Thinking he is "wacked for beleiving in God". >> > > > > > >> > > > > > 4. "[P]ersonally insulting [him] on the level of a name >> >calling >> > > > > > 2nd grader." >> > > > > > >> > > > > > 5. "[I]nsulting [his] wife and [him]. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > 6. That my wife and I had labelled him and his wife as >>evil. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > 7. Calling him "very nasty names." >> > > > > > >> > > > > > 8. That I had told him "what [my] wife thought of those >>who >> > > > > > beleive in Gid". >> > > > > > >> > > > > > 9. That I would think he and his wife "are evil and >>wicked, >> >the >> > > > > > world's most sinister people". >> > > > > > >> > > > > > 10. That I refuse to meet him because of his beliefs. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > 11. That I sent electronically "many nasty words that were >> >anti >> > > > > > religious". >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Bill needs to either substantiate these accusations or >>else >> > > > > > acknowledge that they are false and offer a most sincere >> >apology >> > > > > > to all parties for having made those accusations and >> > >particularly >> > > > > > for having prevented the timely resolution of this matter. >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >_________________________________________________________________________ >> > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >> > > >http://www.hotmail.com. >> > > > >> > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public >>profile >> >at >> > > > http://profiles.msn.com. >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > >> >_________________________________________________________________________ >> > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >> >http://www.hotmail.com. >> > > >> > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >> > >http://profiles.msn.com. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> >_________________________________________________________________________ >> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >> >http://www.hotmail.com. >> > >> > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >> > http://profiles.msn.com. >> > >> >>_________________________________________________________________________ >>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. >> >>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >>http://profiles.msn.com. >> >> >> > >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >http://profiles.msn.com. > ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-zc01.mx.aol.com (rly-zc01.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.1]) by air-zc01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Sun, 01 Oct 2000 18:53:52 -0400 Received: from lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (lsmls01.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.20]) by rly-zc01.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Sun, 01 Oct 2000 18:53:32 -0400 Received: from wb (we-24-130-113-13.we.mediaone.net [24.130.113.13]) by lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA07604; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 15:53:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002301c02bfb$103a0f40$5a45fea9@wb.we.mediaone.net> From: "Bill Bequette" To: "Bill Morgan" , Cc: Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 15:58:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 ################################################ Subj: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? Date: 02-Oct-00 12:26:48 Pacific Daylight Time From: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan) To: billbeq@mediaone.net, editor@liberator.net CC: DWise1@aol.com Life is 10% situations and 90% how you deal with it. Many people choose to be miserable. One of my mottos Bill, is listen to miserable and grumpy people, but don't let them make you miserable and grumpy. >From: "Bill Bequette" >To: "Bill Morgan" , >CC: >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? >Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 15:58:06 -0700 > >Well the historical evidence proves that Jesus was a real person where >miracles occurred. If you don't want to believe and accept the fact that >the Lord loves you then that is your decision. But don't make false >statements. It just makes you look bad. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Bill Morgan >To: editor@liberator.net ; billbeq@mediaone.net > >Cc: DWise1@aol.com >Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000 3:22 PM >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > >Mark: why did you ignore my e mail which truthfully pointed out that if > >Jesus was a fake why would you hate something that is fake and spend so >much > >time angry about it? > > > > > >>From: "Mark" > >>To: "Bill Morgan" , > >>CC: > >>Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > >>Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 08:20:48 -0500 > >> > >>Bill Morgan , you wrote: > >> > >>"When you know the truth you are happy." > >> > >>Were you happy to learn that your personal savior is a character in a > >>story? > >> > >>= ) > >> > >>Mark > >>The Liberator > >>E-Mail: editor@liberator.net > >>Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > >> > >> > >> >From: "Media One Mail" > >> >To: "Bill Morgan" , > >> >CC: > >> >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > >> >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:59:47 -0700 > >> > > >> >Bill have you ever noticed how unhappy some people are? Why is that? > >>Bill > >> >your real happy most the time! I think I know why!!!!! > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: Bill Morgan > >> > To: editor@liberator.net ; plasma@worldnet.att.net > >> > Cc: DWise1@aol.com > >> > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 7:08 AM > >> > Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > >> > > >> > > >> > I don't know about hype about exercising, I have always exercised. >I > >> >have > >> > been busy watching the Olympics (really as back ground noise while > >>doing > >> > other vital things). Do gymnasts hate their bodies? Oh the >humanity! > >> > > >> > > >> > >From: "Mark" > >> > >To: "Bill Morgan" , > > >> > >CC: > >> > >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > >> > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:16:24 -0500 > >> > > > >> > >Have you noticed all of this exorcism hype? First the Pope tries >to > >> > >exorcise a woman but fails. Next a priest is trained as an >exorcist. > >> >Then > >> > >the film The Exorcist will be re-released soon. Coincidence? > >>Nah.... > >> > > > >> > >People love fiction. It's entertaining.... > >> > > > >> > >Mark > >> > >The Liberator > >> > >E-Mail: editor@liberator.net > >> > >Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > >> > > > >> > > > >> > >----- Original Message ----- > >> > >From: Bill Morgan > >> > >To: ; > >> > >Cc: > >> > >Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:08 PM > >> > >Subject: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > >> > > > >> > > > >> > >We will have a 6 foot long submarine sandwich and chips and stuff. > >> >Please > >> > >bring a liter bottle of your choice. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >From: "Mark" > >> > > >To: > >> > > >CC: , > >> > > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now > >>offer > >> >to > >> > > >you > >> > > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:52:56 -0500 > >> > > > > >> > > >If it's possible for fictional characters to love... > >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > > > From: .. > >> > > > To: Bill Morgan ; DWise1@aol.com > >> > > > Cc: editor@liberator.net > >> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:50 AM > >> > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I >now > >> >offer > >> > >to > >> > > >you > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Break bread and become friends!!!! It is amazing what a cup >of > >>pop > >> >and > >> > > >piece of pizza can accomplish! Jesus Loves You! > >> > > > Bill > >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > > > From: Bill Morgan > >> > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; DWise1@aol.com > >> > > > Cc: editor@liberator.net > >> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:56 PM > >> > > > Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I > >>now > >> > >offer > >> > > >to you > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Bill, good point, I offered to meet Mr Wise for food and >drink > >> >many > >> > > >times > >> > > > and have been rejected. You know how much I hate typing. > >> > > > > >> > > > Mr Wise, lets meet and eat! :) > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >From: "Bill Bequette" > >> > > > >To: > >> > > > >CC: , > >> > > > >Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which >I > >>now > >> > >offer > >> > > >to > >> > > > >you > >> > > > >Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 16:27:55 -0700 > >> > > > > > >> > > > >Sorry, > >> > > > >I didn't see the explanation below when I sent the other > >>email. > >> > >Well > >> > > >if > >> > > > >Bill does not agree with your viewpoint or seems to have > >> >slandered > >> > > >your > >> > > > >name > >> > > > >it may be because discussions about religion are a very > >> >emotional > >> > > >topic and > >> > > > >even if you were correct you could not ask him to >relinquish > >> >his > >> > > >"lifes > >> > > > >values". You may be asking him to relinquish everything >that > >> >he > >> > > >believes > >> > > > >in > >> > > > >i.e. his entire personality and vice versa. I don't >believe > >> >much > >> > >is > >> > > > >accomplished in discussing religion, or politics. Neither > >> >party > >> > >will > >> > > >ever > >> > > > >agree with the other in most cases. I am not refuting >that >I > >> > >believe > >> > > >in > >> > > > >God > >> > > > >by the above or that you or Bill are correct(I just don't > >>have > >> >the > >> > > >time to > >> > > > >review all your emails) just that some issues are better >left > >> >alone > >> > > >if the > >> > > > >goal is to convert the other based on the discussion at >hand. > >> > >Maybe > >> > > >you > >> > > > >should all get together and have a pizza and chill a >little. > >>I > >> > >wish > >> > > >you > >> > > > >all > >> > > > >well. Take Care, Bill B. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > > > > From: DWise1@aol.com [mailto:DWise1@aol.com] > >> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 2:56 PM > >> > > > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net > >> > > > > > Cc: dwise1@aol.com; editor@liberator.net; > >> >billyjack1@hotmail.com > >> > > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense >which > >>I > >> >now > >> > > >offer to > >> > > > > > you > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Bill B., I understand that Bill Morgan (Bill M.) is >your > >> >friend, > >> > > > > > but I would hope that that friendship would not prevent > >>you > >> >from > >> > > > > > seeking the truth. I am not asking you to side with me > >> >against > >> > > > > > your friend, but rather that you side with the cause of > >> > > > > > determining the truth of this matter. From my own > >> > >fundamentalist > >> > > > > > Christian training, I remember being taught that > >>Christians > >> >at > >> > >to > >> > > > > > serve the God of Truth, which Bill has echoed in his > >> >published > >> > > > > > writings by telling proselytization trainees that they > >>serve > >> > > > > > Truth. Unless fundamentalist Christian thought has > >>changed > >> > > > > > radically in the past few decades (besides the heavy > >> > > > > > politization), I would expect you to also want to serve > >> >Truth. > >> > > > > > That is all that I ask, that you honor and apply those > >> >Christian > >> > > >values. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > In order to serve Truth, the facts must be examined. >That > >> >is > >> > >why > >> > > > > > I had CC:'d all those messages to you, so that you >could > >> >learn > >> > > > > > something about what the situation here really is. >That > >>is > >> >also > >> > > > > > why I told you where you could find copies of the > >> >correspondence > >> > > > > > between Bill and me, so you could see for yourself what > >>had > >> >been > >> > > > > > said and what was going on. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Bill misled you to believe that this was a disagreement > >>over > >> > > > > > world-views and that I was closing my eyes to the >facts. > >>I > >> >am > >> > > > > > truly sorry to have to tell you this, but Bill lied to > >>you. > >> > > > > > World views had not had a chance to enter into the > >> >discussion. > >> > > > > > And I have steadfastly insisted that we examine the >facts > >> > >whereas > >> > > > > > Bill has steadfastly refused to and is willfully > >>preventing > >> >our > >> > > > > > examination of the facts. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > No, what the disagreement is over is that Bill has > >> > > > > > libelled/slandered me and I am trying to resolve that > >> >matter. > >> > >He > >> > > > > > has made several false accusations against me, saying >that > >>I > >> >had > >> > > > > > said or that I believe various horrible things. I am >sure > >> >that > >> > >I > >> > > > > > had never said such things to Bill or about Bill in >print. > >> >I > >> > > > > > have repeatedly asked Bill to substantiate his > >>accusations, > >> >at > >> > > > > > the very least he needs to tell me what I had said, as > >>close > >> >as > >> > > > > > he can remember it. Bill steadfastly refuses. Until >he > >> > >provides > >> > > > > > that information, we cannot know which messages to >examine > >> >in > >> > > > > > order to arrive at the truth. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > In order to arrive at the truth in this matter, we need >to > >> > > > > > examine the facts, ie, what does Bill think I had said >and > >> >what > >> > > > > > had I actually written? I have repeatedly called for > >> > >examination > >> > > > > > of the facts and Bill has steadfastly ignored those > >> >requests. > >> > > > > > Since I find it impossible to believe that he could >have > >> >missed > >> > > > > > over 20 very clear requests (about 27 now, if we >include > >> > > > > > references to those requests), Bill must be withholding > >>his > >> > > > > > information willfully. That would mean that Bill is > >> >willfully > >> > > > > > opposing the Truth. Is that how a Christian is >supposed > >>to > >> > > >behave? > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > As I said, I am not asking you to side with me against > >>Bill, > >> >but > >> > > > > > rather that you side with the Truth. I have just >repeated > >> >to > >> > >you > >> > > > > > what I see the situation as being. You can read the > >>actual > >> > > > > > transcript to see whether I am being truthful or Bill >is. > >> >Or > >> > > > > > neither of us. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > In either case, we still need to resolve this matter. > >> > > > > > Unfortunately, Bill is being intransigent. We need >help. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > The actual role that I would like you to take is to try >to > >> > > > > > convince Bill to relinguish his information so that we >can > >> > > > > > finally examine the facts. What does he think I said >to > >> >insult > >> > > > > > his wife? What "very nasty names" does he think I >called > >> >him? > >> > > > > > At the end of this message, I will repeat the list of > >> > >accusations > >> > > > > > Bill made against me; at least he confirmed that he had > >> >indeed > >> > > > > > made those accusations. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > If you are unsuccessful in that endeavor, then at least > >>try > >> >to > >> > > > > > get Bill to explain to you why he refuses to divulge >that > >> > > > > > information. Please remind him that if I had truly >done > >>the > >> > > > > > things that he had accused me of, then we would find >them > >> >right > >> > > > > > there in the record. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Then if he refuses to give you that explanation, please > >>ask > >> >he > >> > > > > > why he is afraid to have the facts examined in this >case. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Personally, I believe that Bill Morgan sees this mess >as > >>one > >> >big > >> > > > > > "rabbit trail" that he wants to milk for all that he >can. > >> >As > >> > > > > > long as we are mired in this mess, we cannot have a > >> >meaningful > >> > > > > > discussion. About three years of correspondence with >Bill > >> >has > >> > > > > > taught me that he is very evasive and will do almost > >> >anything he > >> > > > > > can to avoid having a meaningful discussion. Even >break > >>one > >> >of > >> > > > > > the Ten Commandments by bearing false witness. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > A list of a few of the false accusations Bill Morgan >has > >> >made > >> > > > > > against me and refuses to substantiate follows: > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 1. Having conducted "bigoted attacks on [him] and [his] > >> >wife" > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 2. Thinking he is "some evil wicked person out to >destroy > >> > > >society". > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 3. Thinking he is "wacked for beleiving in God". > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 4. "[P]ersonally insulting [him] on the level of a name > >> >calling > >> > > > > > 2nd grader." > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 5. "[I]nsulting [his] wife and [him]. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 6. That my wife and I had labelled him and his wife as > >>evil. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 7. Calling him "very nasty names." > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 8. That I had told him "what [my] wife thought of those > >>who > >> > > > > > beleive in Gid". > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 9. That I would think he and his wife "are evil and > >>wicked, > >> >the > >> > > > > > world's most sinister people". > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 10. That I refuse to meet him because of his beliefs. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 11. That I sent electronically "many nasty words that >were > >> >anti > >> > > > > > religious". > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Bill needs to either substantiate these accusations or > >>else > >> > > > > > acknowledge that they are false and offer a most >sincere > >> >apology > >> > > > > > to all parties for having made those accusations and > >> > >particularly > >> > > > > > for having prevented the timely resolution of this >matter. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >_________________________________________________________________________ > >> > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > >> > > >http://www.hotmail.com. > >> > > > > >> > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public > >>profile > >> >at > >> > > > http://profiles.msn.com. > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > >_________________________________________________________________________ > >> > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > >> >http://www.hotmail.com. > >> > > > >> > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile >at > >> > >http://profiles.msn.com. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > >_________________________________________________________________________ > >> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > >> >http://www.hotmail.com. > >> > > >> > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > >> > http://profiles.msn.com. > >> > > >> > >>_________________________________________________________________________ > >>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >http://www.hotmail.com. > >> > >>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > >>http://profiles.msn.com. > >> > >> > >> > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > >http://profiles.msn.com. > > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-ye03.mx.aol.com (rly-ye03.mail.aol.com [172.18.151.200]) by air-ye04.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Mon, 02 Oct 2000 15:26:48 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (f92.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.92]) by rly-ye03.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Mon, 02 Oct 2000 15:26:29 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:26:29 -0700 Received: from 164.45.101.11 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 02 Oct 2000 19:26:28 GMT X-Originating-IP: [164.45.101.11] From: "Bill Morgan" To: billbeq@mediaone.net, editor@liberator.net Cc: DWise1@aol.com Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 19:26:28 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Oct 2000 19:26:29.0124 (UTC) FILETIME=[A9CB4C40:01C02CA6] ################################################ Subj: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? Date: 02-Oct-00 12:42:58 Pacific Daylight Time From: billbeq@mediaone.net (Bill Bequette) To: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan), editor@liberator.net CC: DWise1@aol.com File: Whatdodo.txt (40855 bytes) DL Time (TCP/IP): < 1 minute Buddy, Did you watch the game where the Lions played this weekend? Is my team doing ok or should I add some more depth to my lineup? Oh I forgot to mention that my wife cut my hair yesterday. We went and bought an electric hair clipper set at Pic N Sav. It cost us only $12. What a deal eh? Anyways she used the #2 spacer so I got a pretty short hair cut. The kit had a video that showed how to cut hair. So we are gonna save a lot of money over the next 30 years! She was all worried about cutting my hair. But I said honey don't worry about it. It will grow back! That is the nice thing about getting a haircut. If is stinks then the hair grows back. Does your wife cut your hair? Or does she cut your daughters only. You know I think it is better to get your hair cut at home. What do you think? ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Morgan To: billbeq@mediaone.net ; editor@liberator.net Cc: DWise1@aol.com Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 12:26 PM Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? Life is 10% situations and 90% how you deal with it. Many people choose to be miserable. One of my mottos Bill, is listen to miserable and grumpy people, but don't let them make you miserable and grumpy. >From: "Bill Bequette" >To: "Bill Morgan" , >CC: >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? >Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 15:58:06 -0700 > >Well the historical evidence proves that Jesus was a real person where >miracles occurred. If you don't want to believe and accept the fact that >the Lord loves you then that is your decision. But don't make false >statements. It just makes you look bad. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Bill Morgan >To: editor@liberator.net ; billbeq@mediaone.net > >Cc: DWise1@aol.com >Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000 3:22 PM >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > >Mark: why did you ignore my e mail which truthfully pointed out that if > >Jesus was a fake why would you hate something that is fake and spend so >much > >time angry about it? > > > > > >>From: "Mark" > >>To: "Bill Morgan" , > >>CC: > >>Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > >>Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 08:20:48 -0500 > >> > >>Bill Morgan , you wrote: > >> > >>"When you know the truth you are happy." > >> > >>Were you happy to learn that your personal savior is a character in a > >>story? > >> > >>= ) > >> > >>Mark > >>The Liberator > >>E-Mail: editor@liberator.net > >>Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > >> > >> > >> >From: "Media One Mail" > >> >To: "Bill Morgan" , > >> >CC: > >> >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > >> >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:59:47 -0700 > >> > > >> >Bill have you ever noticed how unhappy some people are? Why is that? > >>Bill > >> >your real happy most the time! I think I know why!!!!! > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: Bill Morgan > >> > To: editor@liberator.net ; plasma@worldnet.att.net > >> > Cc: DWise1@aol.com > >> > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 7:08 AM > >> > Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > >> > > >> > > >> > I don't know about hype about exercising, I have always exercised. >I > >> >have > >> > been busy watching the Olympics (really as back ground noise while > >>doing > >> > other vital things). Do gymnasts hate their bodies? Oh the >humanity! > >> > > >> > > >> > >From: "Mark" > >> > >To: "Bill Morgan" , > > >> > >CC: > >> > >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > >> > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:16:24 -0500 > >> > > > >> > >Have you noticed all of this exorcism hype? First the Pope tries >to > >> > >exorcise a woman but fails. Next a priest is trained as an >exorcist. > >> >Then > >> > >the film The Exorcist will be re-released soon. Coincidence? > >>Nah.... > >> > > > >> > >People love fiction. It's entertaining.... > >> > > > >> > >Mark > >> > >The Liberator > >> > >E-Mail: editor@liberator.net > >> > >Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > >> > > > >> > > > >> > >----- Original Message ----- > >> > >From: Bill Morgan > >> > >To: ; > >> > >Cc: > >> > >Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:08 PM > >> > >Subject: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > >> > > > >> > > > >> > >We will have a 6 foot long submarine sandwich and chips and stuff. > >> >Please > >> > >bring a liter bottle of your choice. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >From: "Mark" > >> > > >To: > >> > > >CC: , > >> > > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now > >>offer > >> >to > >> > > >you > >> > > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:52:56 -0500 > >> > > > > >> > > >If it's possible for fictional characters to love... > >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > > > From: .. > >> > > > To: Bill Morgan ; DWise1@aol.com > >> > > > Cc: editor@liberator.net > >> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:50 AM > >> > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I >now > >> >offer > >> > >to > >> > > >you > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Break bread and become friends!!!! It is amazing what a cup >of > >>pop > >> >and > >> > > >piece of pizza can accomplish! Jesus Loves You! > >> > > > Bill > >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > > > From: Bill Morgan > >> > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; DWise1@aol.com > >> > > > Cc: editor@liberator.net > >> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:56 PM > >> > > > Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I > >>now > >> > >offer > >> > > >to you > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Bill, good point, I offered to meet Mr Wise for food and >drink > >> >many > >> > > >times > >> > > > and have been rejected. You know how much I hate typing. > >> > > > > >> > > > Mr Wise, lets meet and eat! :) > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >From: "Bill Bequette" > >> > > > >To: > >> > > > >CC: , > >> > > > >Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which >I > >>now > >> > >offer > >> > > >to > >> > > > >you > >> > > > >Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 16:27:55 -0700 > >> > > > > > >> > > > >Sorry, > >> > > > >I didn't see the explanation below when I sent the other > >>email. > >> > >Well > >> > > >if > >> > > > >Bill does not agree with your viewpoint or seems to have > >> >slandered > >> > > >your > >> > > > >name > >> > > > >it may be because discussions about religion are a very > >> >emotional > >> > > >topic and > >> > > > >even if you were correct you could not ask him to >relinquish > >> >his > >> > > >"lifes > >> > > > >values". You may be asking him to relinquish everything >that > >> >he > >> > > >believes > >> > > > >in > >> > > > >i.e. his entire personality and vice versa. I don't >believe > >> >much > >> > >is > >> > > > >accomplished in discussing religion, or politics. Neither > >> >party > >> > >will > >> > > >ever > >> > > > >agree with the other in most cases. I am not refuting >that >I > >> > >believe > >> > > >in > >> > > > >God > >> > > > >by the above or that you or Bill are correct(I just don't > >>have > >> >the > >> > > >time to > >> > > > >review all your emails) just that some issues are better >left > >> >alone > >> > > >if the > >> > > > >goal is to convert the other based on the discussion at >hand. > >> > >Maybe > >> > > >you > >> > > > >should all get together and have a pizza and chill a >little. > >>I > >> > >wish > >> > > >you > >> > > > >all > >> > > > >well. Take Care, Bill B. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > > > > From: DWise1@aol.com [mailto:DWise1@aol.com] > >> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 2:56 PM > >> > > > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net > >> > > > > > Cc: dwise1@aol.com; editor@liberator.net; > >> >billyjack1@hotmail.com > >> > > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense >which > >>I > >> >now > >> > > >offer to > >> > > > > > you > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Bill B., I understand that Bill Morgan (Bill M.) is >your > >> >friend, > >> > > > > > but I would hope that that friendship would not prevent > >>you > >> >from > >> > > > > > seeking the truth. I am not asking you to side with me > >> >against > >> > > > > > your friend, but rather that you side with the cause of > >> > > > > > determining the truth of this matter. From my own > >> > >fundamentalist > >> > > > > > Christian training, I remember being taught that > >>Christians > >> >at > >> > >to > >> > > > > > serve the God of Truth, which Bill has echoed in his > >> >published > >> > > > > > writings by telling proselytization trainees that they > >>serve > >> > > > > > Truth. Unless fundamentalist Christian thought has > >>changed > >> > > > > > radically in the past few decades (besides the heavy > >> > > > > > politization), I would expect you to also want to serve > >> >Truth. > >> > > > > > That is all that I ask, that you honor and apply those > >> >Christian > >> > > >values. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > In order to serve Truth, the facts must be examined. >That > >> >is > >> > >why > >> > > > > > I had CC:'d all those messages to you, so that you >could > >> >learn > >> > > > > > something about what the situation here really is. >That > >>is > >> >also > >> > > > > > why I told you where you could find copies of the > >> >correspondence > >> > > > > > between Bill and me, so you could see for yourself what > >>had > >> >been > >> > > > > > said and what was going on. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Bill misled you to believe that this was a disagreement > >>over > >> > > > > > world-views and that I was closing my eyes to the >facts. > >>I > >> >am > >> > > > > > truly sorry to have to tell you this, but Bill lied to > >>you. > >> > > > > > World views had not had a chance to enter into the > >> >discussion. > >> > > > > > And I have steadfastly insisted that we examine the >facts > >> > >whereas > >> > > > > > Bill has steadfastly refused to and is willfully > >>preventing > >> >our > >> > > > > > examination of the facts. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > No, what the disagreement is over is that Bill has > >> > > > > > libelled/slandered me and I am trying to resolve that > >> >matter. > >> > >He > >> > > > > > has made several false accusations against me, saying >that > >>I > >> >had > >> > > > > > said or that I believe various horrible things. I am >sure > >> >that > >> > >I > >> > > > > > had never said such things to Bill or about Bill in >print. > >> >I > >> > > > > > have repeatedly asked Bill to substantiate his > >>accusations, > >> >at > >> > > > > > the very least he needs to tell me what I had said, as > >>close > >> >as > >> > > > > > he can remember it. Bill steadfastly refuses. Until >he > >> > >provides > >> > > > > > that information, we cannot know which messages to >examine > >> >in > >> > > > > > order to arrive at the truth. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > In order to arrive at the truth in this matter, we need >to > >> > > > > > examine the facts, ie, what does Bill think I had said >and > >> >what > >> > > > > > had I actually written? I have repeatedly called for > >> > >examination > >> > > > > > of the facts and Bill has steadfastly ignored those > >> >requests. > >> > > > > > Since I find it impossible to believe that he could >have > >> >missed > >> > > > > > over 20 very clear requests (about 27 now, if we >include > >> > > > > > references to those requests), Bill must be withholding > >>his > >> > > > > > information willfully. That would mean that Bill is > >> >willfully > >> > > > > > opposing the Truth. Is that how a Christian is >supposed > >>to > >> > > >behave? > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > As I said, I am not asking you to side with me against > >>Bill, > >> >but > >> > > > > > rather that you side with the Truth. I have just >repeated > >> >to > >> > >you > >> > > > > > what I see the situation as being. You can read the > >>actual > >> > > > > > transcript to see whether I am being truthful or Bill >is. > >> >Or > >> > > > > > neither of us. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > In either case, we still need to resolve this matter. > >> > > > > > Unfortunately, Bill is being intransigent. We need >help. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > The actual role that I would like you to take is to try >to > >> > > > > > convince Bill to relinguish his information so that we >can > >> > > > > > finally examine the facts. What does he think I said >to > >> >insult > >> > > > > > his wife? What "very nasty names" does he think I >called > >> >him? > >> > > > > > At the end of this message, I will repeat the list of > >> > >accusations > >> > > > > > Bill made against me; at least he confirmed that he had > >> >indeed > >> > > > > > made those accusations. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > If you are unsuccessful in that endeavor, then at least > >>try > >> >to > >> > > > > > get Bill to explain to you why he refuses to divulge >that > >> > > > > > information. Please remind him that if I had truly >done > >>the > >> > > > > > things that he had accused me of, then we would find >them > >> >right > >> > > > > > there in the record. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Then if he refuses to give you that explanation, please > >>ask > >> >he > >> > > > > > why he is afraid to have the facts examined in this >case. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Personally, I believe that Bill Morgan sees this mess >as > >>one > >> >big > >> > > > > > "rabbit trail" that he wants to milk for all that he >can. > >> >As > >> > > > > > long as we are mired in this mess, we cannot have a > >> >meaningful > >> > > > > > discussion. About three years of correspondence with >Bill > >> >has > >> > > > > > taught me that he is very evasive and will do almost > >> >anything he > >> > > > > > can to avoid having a meaningful discussion. Even >break > >>one > >> >of > >> > > > > > the Ten Commandments by bearing false witness. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > A list of a few of the false accusations Bill Morgan >has > >> >made > >> > > > > > against me and refuses to substantiate follows: > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 1. Having conducted "bigoted attacks on [him] and [his] > >> >wife" > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 2. Thinking he is "some evil wicked person out to >destroy > >> > > >society". > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 3. Thinking he is "wacked for beleiving in God". > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 4. "[P]ersonally insulting [him] on the level of a name > >> >calling > >> > > > > > 2nd grader." > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 5. "[I]nsulting [his] wife and [him]. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 6. That my wife and I had labelled him and his wife as > >>evil. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 7. Calling him "very nasty names." > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 8. That I had told him "what [my] wife thought of those > >>who > >> > > > > > beleive in Gid". > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 9. That I would think he and his wife "are evil and > >>wicked, > >> >the > >> > > > > > world's most sinister people". > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 10. That I refuse to meet him because of his beliefs. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 11. That I sent electronically "many nasty words that >were > >> >anti > >> > > > > > religious". > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Bill needs to either substantiate these accusations or > >>else > >> > > > > > acknowledge that they are false and offer a most >sincere > >> >apology > >> > > > > > to all parties for having made those accusations and > >> > >particularly > >> > > > > > for having prevented the timely resolution of this >matter. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >_________________________________________________________________________ > >> > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > >> > > >http://www.hotmail.com. > >> > > > > >> > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public > >>profile > >> >at > >> > > > http://profiles.msn.com. > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > >_________________________________________________________________________ > >> > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > >> >http://www.hotmail.com. > >> > > > >> > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile >at > >> > >http://profiles.msn.com. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > >_________________________________________________________________________ > >> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > >> >http://www.hotmail.com. > >> > > >> > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > >> > http://profiles.msn.com. > >> > > >> > >>_________________________________________________________________________ > >>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >http://www.hotmail.com. > >> > >>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > >>http://profiles.msn.com. > >> > >> > >> > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > >http://profiles.msn.com. > > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-yg04.mx.aol.com (rly-yg04.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.4]) by air-yg01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Mon, 02 Oct 2000 15:42:58 -0400 Received: from lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (lsmls01.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.20]) by rly-yg04.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Mon, 02 Oct 2000 15:42:19 -0400 Received: from gunsgalore (1Cust123.tnt1.huntington-beach2.ca.da.uu.net [63.17.32.123]) by lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA19390; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:42:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002301c02ca8$7c3bde00$a921113f@com> From: "Bill Bequette" To: "Bill Morgan" , Cc: References: Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:39:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0020_01C02C6D.CE5AF9E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 ################################################ Subj: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? Date: 02-Oct-00 12:46:26 Pacific Daylight Time From: billbeq@mediaone.net (Bill Bequette) To: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan), editor@liberator.net CC: DWise1@aol.com File: Whatdodo.txt (39876 bytes) DL Time (TCP/IP): < 1 minute You are right big guy. I gotta admit ever since you ate tofu you have been a changed man. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Morgan To: billbeq@mediaone.net ; editor@liberator.net Cc: DWise1@aol.com Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 12:26 PM Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? Life is 10% situations and 90% how you deal with it. Many people choose to be miserable. One of my mottos Bill, is listen to miserable and grumpy people, but don't let them make you miserable and grumpy. >From: "Bill Bequette" >To: "Bill Morgan" , >CC: >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? >Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 15:58:06 -0700 > >Well the historical evidence proves that Jesus was a real person where >miracles occurred. If you don't want to believe and accept the fact that >the Lord loves you then that is your decision. But don't make false >statements. It just makes you look bad. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Bill Morgan >To: editor@liberator.net ; billbeq@mediaone.net > >Cc: DWise1@aol.com >Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000 3:22 PM >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > >Mark: why did you ignore my e mail which truthfully pointed out that if > >Jesus was a fake why would you hate something that is fake and spend so >much > >time angry about it? > > > > > >>From: "Mark" > >>To: "Bill Morgan" , > >>CC: > >>Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > >>Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 08:20:48 -0500 > >> > >>Bill Morgan , you wrote: > >> > >>"When you know the truth you are happy." > >> > >>Were you happy to learn that your personal savior is a character in a > >>story? > >> > >>= ) > >> > >>Mark > >>The Liberator > >>E-Mail: editor@liberator.net > >>Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > >> > >> > >> >From: "Media One Mail" > >> >To: "Bill Morgan" , > >> >CC: > >> >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > >> >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:59:47 -0700 > >> > > >> >Bill have you ever noticed how unhappy some people are? Why is that? > >>Bill > >> >your real happy most the time! I think I know why!!!!! > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: Bill Morgan > >> > To: editor@liberator.net ; plasma@worldnet.att.net > >> > Cc: DWise1@aol.com > >> > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 7:08 AM > >> > Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > >> > > >> > > >> > I don't know about hype about exercising, I have always exercised. >I > >> >have > >> > been busy watching the Olympics (really as back ground noise while > >>doing > >> > other vital things). Do gymnasts hate their bodies? Oh the >humanity! > >> > > >> > > >> > >From: "Mark" > >> > >To: "Bill Morgan" , > > >> > >CC: > >> > >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > >> > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:16:24 -0500 > >> > > > >> > >Have you noticed all of this exorcism hype? First the Pope tries >to > >> > >exorcise a woman but fails. Next a priest is trained as an >exorcist. > >> >Then > >> > >the film The Exorcist will be re-released soon. Coincidence? > >>Nah.... > >> > > > >> > >People love fiction. It's entertaining.... > >> > > > >> > >Mark > >> > >The Liberator > >> > >E-Mail: editor@liberator.net > >> > >Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > >> > > > >> > > > >> > >----- Original Message ----- > >> > >From: Bill Morgan > >> > >To: ; > >> > >Cc: > >> > >Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:08 PM > >> > >Subject: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > >> > > > >> > > > >> > >We will have a 6 foot long submarine sandwich and chips and stuff. > >> >Please > >> > >bring a liter bottle of your choice. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >From: "Mark" > >> > > >To: > >> > > >CC: , > >> > > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I now > >>offer > >> >to > >> > > >you > >> > > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:52:56 -0500 > >> > > > > >> > > >If it's possible for fictional characters to love... > >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > > > From: .. > >> > > > To: Bill Morgan ; DWise1@aol.com > >> > > > Cc: editor@liberator.net > >> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:50 AM > >> > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I >now > >> >offer > >> > >to > >> > > >you > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Break bread and become friends!!!! It is amazing what a cup >of > >>pop > >> >and > >> > > >piece of pizza can accomplish! Jesus Loves You! > >> > > > Bill > >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > > > From: Bill Morgan > >> > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; DWise1@aol.com > >> > > > Cc: editor@liberator.net > >> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:56 PM > >> > > > Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I > >>now > >> > >offer > >> > > >to you > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Bill, good point, I offered to meet Mr Wise for food and >drink > >> >many > >> > > >times > >> > > > and have been rejected. You know how much I hate typing. > >> > > > > >> > > > Mr Wise, lets meet and eat! :) > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >From: "Bill Bequette" > >> > > > >To: > >> > > > >CC: , > >> > > > >Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which >I > >>now > >> > >offer > >> > > >to > >> > > > >you > >> > > > >Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 16:27:55 -0700 > >> > > > > > >> > > > >Sorry, > >> > > > >I didn't see the explanation below when I sent the other > >>email. > >> > >Well > >> > > >if > >> > > > >Bill does not agree with your viewpoint or seems to have > >> >slandered > >> > > >your > >> > > > >name > >> > > > >it may be because discussions about religion are a very > >> >emotional > >> > > >topic and > >> > > > >even if you were correct you could not ask him to >relinquish > >> >his > >> > > >"lifes > >> > > > >values". You may be asking him to relinquish everything >that > >> >he > >> > > >believes > >> > > > >in > >> > > > >i.e. his entire personality and vice versa. I don't >believe > >> >much > >> > >is > >> > > > >accomplished in discussing religion, or politics. Neither > >> >party > >> > >will > >> > > >ever > >> > > > >agree with the other in most cases. I am not refuting >that >I > >> > >believe > >> > > >in > >> > > > >God > >> > > > >by the above or that you or Bill are correct(I just don't > >>have > >> >the > >> > > >time to > >> > > > >review all your emails) just that some issues are better >left > >> >alone > >> > > >if the > >> > > > >goal is to convert the other based on the discussion at >hand. > >> > >Maybe > >> > > >you > >> > > > >should all get together and have a pizza and chill a >little. > >>I > >> > >wish > >> > > >you > >> > > > >all > >> > > > >well. Take Care, Bill B. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > > > > From: DWise1@aol.com [mailto:DWise1@aol.com] > >> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 2:56 PM > >> > > > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net > >> > > > > > Cc: dwise1@aol.com; editor@liberator.net; > >> >billyjack1@hotmail.com > >> > > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense >which > >>I > >> >now > >> > > >offer to > >> > > > > > you > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Bill B., I understand that Bill Morgan (Bill M.) is >your > >> >friend, > >> > > > > > but I would hope that that friendship would not prevent > >>you > >> >from > >> > > > > > seeking the truth. I am not asking you to side with me > >> >against > >> > > > > > your friend, but rather that you side with the cause of > >> > > > > > determining the truth of this matter. From my own > >> > >fundamentalist > >> > > > > > Christian training, I remember being taught that > >>Christians > >> >at > >> > >to > >> > > > > > serve the God of Truth, which Bill has echoed in his > >> >published > >> > > > > > writings by telling proselytization trainees that they > >>serve > >> > > > > > Truth. Unless fundamentalist Christian thought has > >>changed > >> > > > > > radically in the past few decades (besides the heavy > >> > > > > > politization), I would expect you to also want to serve > >> >Truth. > >> > > > > > That is all that I ask, that you honor and apply those > >> >Christian > >> > > >values. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > In order to serve Truth, the facts must be examined. >That > >> >is > >> > >why > >> > > > > > I had CC:'d all those messages to you, so that you >could > >> >learn > >> > > > > > something about what the situation here really is. >That > >>is > >> >also > >> > > > > > why I told you where you could find copies of the > >> >correspondence > >> > > > > > between Bill and me, so you could see for yourself what > >>had > >> >been > >> > > > > > said and what was going on. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Bill misled you to believe that this was a disagreement > >>over > >> > > > > > world-views and that I was closing my eyes to the >facts. > >>I > >> >am > >> > > > > > truly sorry to have to tell you this, but Bill lied to > >>you. > >> > > > > > World views had not had a chance to enter into the > >> >discussion. > >> > > > > > And I have steadfastly insisted that we examine the >facts > >> > >whereas > >> > > > > > Bill has steadfastly refused to and is willfully > >>preventing > >> >our > >> > > > > > examination of the facts. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > No, what the disagreement is over is that Bill has > >> > > > > > libelled/slandered me and I am trying to resolve that > >> >matter. > >> > >He > >> > > > > > has made several false accusations against me, saying >that > >>I > >> >had > >> > > > > > said or that I believe various horrible things. I am >sure > >> >that > >> > >I > >> > > > > > had never said such things to Bill or about Bill in >print. > >> >I > >> > > > > > have repeatedly asked Bill to substantiate his > >>accusations, > >> >at > >> > > > > > the very least he needs to tell me what I had said, as > >>close > >> >as > >> > > > > > he can remember it. Bill steadfastly refuses. Until >he > >> > >provides > >> > > > > > that information, we cannot know which messages to >examine > >> >in > >> > > > > > order to arrive at the truth. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > In order to arrive at the truth in this matter, we need >to > >> > > > > > examine the facts, ie, what does Bill think I had said >and > >> >what > >> > > > > > had I actually written? I have repeatedly called for > >> > >examination > >> > > > > > of the facts and Bill has steadfastly ignored those > >> >requests. > >> > > > > > Since I find it impossible to believe that he could >have > >> >missed > >> > > > > > over 20 very clear requests (about 27 now, if we >include > >> > > > > > references to those requests), Bill must be withholding > >>his > >> > > > > > information willfully. That would mean that Bill is > >> >willfully > >> > > > > > opposing the Truth. Is that how a Christian is >supposed > >>to > >> > > >behave? > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > As I said, I am not asking you to side with me against > >>Bill, > >> >but > >> > > > > > rather that you side with the Truth. I have just >repeated > >> >to > >> > >you > >> > > > > > what I see the situation as being. You can read the > >>actual > >> > > > > > transcript to see whether I am being truthful or Bill >is. > >> >Or > >> > > > > > neither of us. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > In either case, we still need to resolve this matter. > >> > > > > > Unfortunately, Bill is being intransigent. We need >help. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > The actual role that I would like you to take is to try >to > >> > > > > > convince Bill to relinguish his information so that we >can > >> > > > > > finally examine the facts. What does he think I said >to > >> >insult > >> > > > > > his wife? What "very nasty names" does he think I >called > >> >him? > >> > > > > > At the end of this message, I will repeat the list of > >> > >accusations > >> > > > > > Bill made against me; at least he confirmed that he had > >> >indeed > >> > > > > > made those accusations. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > If you are unsuccessful in that endeavor, then at least > >>try > >> >to > >> > > > > > get Bill to explain to you why he refuses to divulge >that > >> > > > > > information. Please remind him that if I had truly >done > >>the > >> > > > > > things that he had accused me of, then we would find >them > >> >right > >> > > > > > there in the record. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Then if he refuses to give you that explanation, please > >>ask > >> >he > >> > > > > > why he is afraid to have the facts examined in this >case. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Personally, I believe that Bill Morgan sees this mess >as > >>one > >> >big > >> > > > > > "rabbit trail" that he wants to milk for all that he >can. > >> >As > >> > > > > > long as we are mired in this mess, we cannot have a > >> >meaningful > >> > > > > > discussion. About three years of correspondence with >Bill > >> >has > >> > > > > > taught me that he is very evasive and will do almost > >> >anything he > >> > > > > > can to avoid having a meaningful discussion. Even >break > >>one > >> >of > >> > > > > > the Ten Commandments by bearing false witness. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > A list of a few of the false accusations Bill Morgan >has > >> >made > >> > > > > > against me and refuses to substantiate follows: > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 1. Having conducted "bigoted attacks on [him] and [his] > >> >wife" > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 2. Thinking he is "some evil wicked person out to >destroy > >> > > >society". > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 3. Thinking he is "wacked for beleiving in God". > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 4. "[P]ersonally insulting [him] on the level of a name > >> >calling > >> > > > > > 2nd grader." > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 5. "[I]nsulting [his] wife and [him]. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 6. That my wife and I had labelled him and his wife as > >>evil. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 7. Calling him "very nasty names." > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 8. That I had told him "what [my] wife thought of those > >>who > >> > > > > > beleive in Gid". > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 9. That I would think he and his wife "are evil and > >>wicked, > >> >the > >> > > > > > world's most sinister people". > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 10. That I refuse to meet him because of his beliefs. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 11. That I sent electronically "many nasty words that >were > >> >anti > >> > > > > > religious". > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Bill needs to either substantiate these accusations or > >>else > >> > > > > > acknowledge that they are false and offer a most >sincere > >> >apology > >> > > > > > to all parties for having made those accusations and > >> > >particularly > >> > > > > > for having prevented the timely resolution of this >matter. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >_________________________________________________________________________ > >> > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > >> > > >http://www.hotmail.com. > >> > > > > >> > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public > >>profile > >> >at > >> > > > http://profiles.msn.com. > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > >_________________________________________________________________________ > >> > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > >> >http://www.hotmail.com. > >> > > > >> > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile >at > >> > >http://profiles.msn.com. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > >_________________________________________________________________________ > >> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > >> >http://www.hotmail.com. > >> > > >> > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > >> > http://profiles.msn.com. > >> > > >> > >>_________________________________________________________________________ > >>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >http://www.hotmail.com. > >> > >>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > >>http://profiles.msn.com. > >> > >> > >> > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > >http://profiles.msn.com. > > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-yd01.mx.aol.com (rly-yd01.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.1]) by air-yd01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Mon, 02 Oct 2000 15:46:26 -0400 Received: from lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (lsmls01.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.20]) by rly-yd01.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Mon, 02 Oct 2000 15:45:43 -0400 Received: from gunsgalore (1Cust123.tnt1.huntington-beach2.ca.da.uu.net [63.17.32.123]) by lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA21177; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:45:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003201c02ca8$f49c8480$a921113f@com> From: "Bill Bequette" To: "Bill Morgan" , Cc: References: Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:42:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002F_01C02C6E.47297D60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 ################################################ Subj: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? Date: 02-Oct-00 12:49:21 Pacific Daylight Time From: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan) To: billbeq@mediaone.net, editor@liberator.net CC: DWise1@aol.com Since I have the big bucks I like going to Fantasitic Sam's getting a good wash, a good conversation, and usually a good cut. I tip well too. Hey, maybe you and Mr Wise and Mr Liberal can become friends....Wise...liberal....let Bill cut your hair for free as a token of friendship! >From: "Bill Bequette" >To: "Bill Morgan" , >CC: >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? >Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:39:28 -0700 > >Buddy, > Did you watch the game where the Lions played this weekend? Is >my team doing ok or should I add some more depth to my lineup? Oh I forgot >to mention that my wife cut my hair yesterday. We went and bought an >electric hair clipper set at Pic N Sav. It cost us only $12. What a deal >eh? Anyways she used the #2 spacer so I got a pretty short hair cut. The >kit had a video that showed how to cut hair. So we are gonna save a lot of >money over the next 30 years! She was all worried about cutting my hair. >But I said honey don't worry about it. It will grow back! That is the >nice thing about getting a haircut. If is stinks then the hair grows back. > Does your wife cut your hair? Or does she cut your daughters only. You >know I think it is better to get your hair cut at home. What do you think? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Morgan > To: billbeq@mediaone.net ; editor@liberator.net > Cc: DWise1@aol.com > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 12:26 PM > Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > Life is 10% situations and 90% how you deal with it. Many people choose >to > be miserable. One of my mottos Bill, is listen to miserable and grumpy > people, but don't let them make you miserable and grumpy. > > > >From: "Bill Bequette" > >To: "Bill Morgan" , > >CC: > >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > >Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 15:58:06 -0700 > > > >Well the historical evidence proves that Jesus was a real person where > >miracles occurred. If you don't want to believe and accept the fact >that > >the Lord loves you then that is your decision. But don't make false > >statements. It just makes you look bad. > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Bill Morgan > >To: editor@liberator.net ; billbeq@mediaone.net > > > >Cc: DWise1@aol.com > >Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000 3:22 PM > >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > > > > >Mark: why did you ignore my e mail which truthfully pointed out that >if > > >Jesus was a fake why would you hate something that is fake and spend >so > >much > > >time angry about it? > > > > > > > > >>From: "Mark" > > >>To: "Bill Morgan" , > > >>CC: > > >>Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > >>Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 08:20:48 -0500 > > >> > > >>Bill Morgan , you wrote: > > >> > > >>"When you know the truth you are happy." > > >> > > >>Were you happy to learn that your personal savior is a character in >a > > >>story? > > >> > > >>= ) > > >> > > >>Mark > > >>The Liberator > > >>E-Mail: editor@liberator.net > > >>Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > > >> > > >> > > >> >From: "Media One Mail" > > >> >To: "Bill Morgan" , > > >> >CC: > > >> >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > >> >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:59:47 -0700 > > >> > > > >> >Bill have you ever noticed how unhappy some people are? Why is >that? > > >>Bill > > >> >your real happy most the time! I think I know why!!!!! > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > > >> > From: Bill Morgan > > >> > To: editor@liberator.net ; plasma@worldnet.att.net > > >> > Cc: DWise1@aol.com > > >> > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 7:08 AM > > >> > Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > I don't know about hype about exercising, I have always >exercised. > >I > > >> >have > > >> > been busy watching the Olympics (really as back ground noise >while > > >>doing > > >> > other vital things). Do gymnasts hate their bodies? Oh the > >humanity! > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > >From: "Mark" > > >> > >To: "Bill Morgan" , > > > > >> > >CC: > > >> > >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > >> > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:16:24 -0500 > > >> > > > > >> > >Have you noticed all of this exorcism hype? First the Pope >tries > >to > > >> > >exorcise a woman but fails. Next a priest is trained as an > >exorcist. > > >> >Then > > >> > >the film The Exorcist will be re-released soon. Coincidence? > > >>Nah.... > > >> > > > > >> > >People love fiction. It's entertaining.... > > >> > > > > >> > >Mark > > >> > >The Liberator > > >> > >E-Mail: editor@liberator.net > > >> > >Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >----- Original Message ----- > > >> > >From: Bill Morgan > > >> > >To: ; > > >> > >Cc: > > >> > >Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:08 PM > > >> > >Subject: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >We will have a 6 foot long submarine sandwich and chips and >stuff. > > >> >Please > > >> > >bring a liter bottle of your choice. > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >From: "Mark" > > >> > > >To: > > >> > > >CC: , > > >> > > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I >now > > >>offer > > >> >to > > >> > > >you > > >> > > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:52:56 -0500 > > >> > > > > > >> > > >If it's possible for fictional characters to love... > > >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > >> > > > From: .. > > >> > > > To: Bill Morgan ; DWise1@aol.com > > >> > > > Cc: editor@liberator.net > > >> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:50 AM > > >> > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which >I > >now > > >> >offer > > >> > >to > > >> > > >you > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Break bread and become friends!!!! It is amazing what a >cup > >of > > >>pop > > >> >and > > >> > > >piece of pizza can accomplish! Jesus Loves You! > > >> > > > Bill > > >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > >> > > > From: Bill Morgan > > >> > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; DWise1@aol.com > > >> > > > Cc: editor@liberator.net > > >> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:56 PM > > >> > > > Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense >which I > > >>now > > >> > >offer > > >> > > >to you > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Bill, good point, I offered to meet Mr Wise for food >and > >drink > > >> >many > > >> > > >times > > >> > > > and have been rejected. You know how much I hate >typing. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Mr Wise, lets meet and eat! :) > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >From: "Bill Bequette" > > >> > > > >To: > > >> > > > >CC: , > > >> > > > >Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense >which > >I > > >>now > > >> > >offer > > >> > > >to > > >> > > > >you > > >> > > > >Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 16:27:55 -0700 > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > >Sorry, > > >> > > > >I didn't see the explanation below when I sent the >other > > >>email. > > >> > >Well > > >> > > >if > > >> > > > >Bill does not agree with your viewpoint or seems to >have > > >> >slandered > > >> > > >your > > >> > > > >name > > >> > > > >it may be because discussions about religion are a >very > > >> >emotional > > >> > > >topic and > > >> > > > >even if you were correct you could not ask him to > >relinquish > > >> >his > > >> > > >"lifes > > >> > > > >values". You may be asking him to relinquish >everything > >that > > >> >he > > >> > > >believes > > >> > > > >in > > >> > > > >i.e. his entire personality and vice versa. I don't > >believe > > >> >much > > >> > >is > > >> > > > >accomplished in discussing religion, or politics. >Neither > > >> >party > > >> > >will > > >> > > >ever > > >> > > > >agree with the other in most cases. I am not refuting > >that > >I > > >> > >believe > > >> > > >in > > >> > > > >God > > >> > > > >by the above or that you or Bill are correct(I just >don't > > >>have > > >> >the > > >> > > >time to > > >> > > > >review all your emails) just that some issues are >better > >left > > >> >alone > > >> > > >if the > > >> > > > >goal is to convert the other based on the discussion >at > >hand. > > >> > >Maybe > > >> > > >you > > >> > > > >should all get together and have a pizza and chill a > >little. > > >>I > > >> > >wish > > >> > > >you > > >> > > > >all > > >> > > > >well. Take Care, Bill B. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > >> > > > > > From: DWise1@aol.com [mailto:DWise1@aol.com] > > >> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 2:56 PM > > >> > > > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net > > >> > > > > > Cc: dwise1@aol.com; editor@liberator.net; > > >> >billyjack1@hotmail.com > > >> > > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense > >which > > >>I > > >> >now > > >> > > >offer to > > >> > > > > > you > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Bill B., I understand that Bill Morgan (Bill M.) is > >your > > >> >friend, > > >> > > > > > but I would hope that that friendship would not >prevent > > >>you > > >> >from > > >> > > > > > seeking the truth. I am not asking you to side >with me > > >> >against > > >> > > > > > your friend, but rather that you side with the >cause of > > >> > > > > > determining the truth of this matter. From my own > > >> > >fundamentalist > > >> > > > > > Christian training, I remember being taught that > > >>Christians > > >> >at > > >> > >to > > >> > > > > > serve the God of Truth, which Bill has echoed in >his > > >> >published > > >> > > > > > writings by telling proselytization trainees that >they > > >>serve > > >> > > > > > Truth. Unless fundamentalist Christian thought has > > >>changed > > >> > > > > > radically in the past few decades (besides the >heavy > > >> > > > > > politization), I would expect you to also want to >serve > > >> >Truth. > > >> > > > > > That is all that I ask, that you honor and apply >those > > >> >Christian > > >> > > >values. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > In order to serve Truth, the facts must be >examined. > >That > > >> >is > > >> > >why > > >> > > > > > I had CC:'d all those messages to you, so that you > >could > > >> >learn > > >> > > > > > something about what the situation here really is. > >That > > >>is > > >> >also > > >> > > > > > why I told you where you could find copies of the > > >> >correspondence > > >> > > > > > between Bill and me, so you could see for yourself >what > > >>had > > >> >been > > >> > > > > > said and what was going on. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Bill misled you to believe that this was a >disagreement > > >>over > > >> > > > > > world-views and that I was closing my eyes to the > >facts. > > >>I > > >> >am > > >> > > > > > truly sorry to have to tell you this, but Bill lied >to > > >>you. > > >> > > > > > World views had not had a chance to enter into the > > >> >discussion. > > >> > > > > > And I have steadfastly insisted that we examine the > >facts > > >> > >whereas > > >> > > > > > Bill has steadfastly refused to and is willfully > > >>preventing > > >> >our > > >> > > > > > examination of the facts. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > No, what the disagreement is over is that Bill has > > >> > > > > > libelled/slandered me and I am trying to resolve >that > > >> >matter. > > >> > >He > > >> > > > > > has made several false accusations against me, >saying > >that > > >>I > > >> >had > > >> > > > > > said or that I believe various horrible things. I >am > >sure > > >> >that > > >> > >I > > >> > > > > > had never said such things to Bill or about Bill in > >print. > > >> >I > > >> > > > > > have repeatedly asked Bill to substantiate his > > >>accusations, > > >> >at > > >> > > > > > the very least he needs to tell me what I had said, >as > > >>close > > >> >as > > >> > > > > > he can remember it. Bill steadfastly refuses. >Until > >he > > >> > >provides > > >> > > > > > that information, we cannot know which messages to > >examine > > >> >in > > >> > > > > > order to arrive at the truth. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > In order to arrive at the truth in this matter, we >need > >to > > >> > > > > > examine the facts, ie, what does Bill think I had >said > >and > > >> >what > > >> > > > > > had I actually written? I have repeatedly called >for > > >> > >examination > > >> > > > > > of the facts and Bill has steadfastly ignored those > > >> >requests. > > >> > > > > > Since I find it impossible to believe that he could > >have > > >> >missed > > >> > > > > > over 20 very clear requests (about 27 now, if we > >include > > >> > > > > > references to those requests), Bill must be >withholding > > >>his > > >> > > > > > information willfully. That would mean that Bill >is > > >> >willfully > > >> > > > > > opposing the Truth. Is that how a Christian is > >supposed > > >>to > > >> > > >behave? > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > As I said, I am not asking you to side with me >against > > >>Bill, > > >> >but > > >> > > > > > rather that you side with the Truth. I have just > >repeated > > >> >to > > >> > >you > > >> > > > > > what I see the situation as being. You can read >the > > >>actual > > >> > > > > > transcript to see whether I am being truthful or >Bill > >is. > > >> >Or > > >> > > > > > neither of us. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > In either case, we still need to resolve this >matter. > > >> > > > > > Unfortunately, Bill is being intransigent. We need > >help. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > The actual role that I would like you to take is to >try > >to > > >> > > > > > convince Bill to relinguish his information so that >we > >can > > >> > > > > > finally examine the facts. What does he think I >said > >to > > >> >insult > > >> > > > > > his wife? What "very nasty names" does he think I > >called > > >> >him? > > >> > > > > > At the end of this message, I will repeat the list >of > > >> > >accusations > > >> > > > > > Bill made against me; at least he confirmed that he >had > > >> >indeed > > >> > > > > > made those accusations. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > If you are unsuccessful in that endeavor, then at >least > > >>try > > >> >to > > >> > > > > > get Bill to explain to you why he refuses to >divulge > >that > > >> > > > > > information. Please remind him that if I had truly > >done > > >>the > > >> > > > > > things that he had accused me of, then we would >find > >them > > >> >right > > >> > > > > > there in the record. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Then if he refuses to give you that explanation, >please > > >>ask > > >> >he > > >> > > > > > why he is afraid to have the facts examined in this > >case. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Personally, I believe that Bill Morgan sees this >mess > >as > > >>one > > >> >big > > >> > > > > > "rabbit trail" that he wants to milk for all that >he > >can. > > >> >As > > >> > > > > > long as we are mired in this mess, we cannot have a > > >> >meaningful > > >> > > > > > discussion. About three years of correspondence >with > >Bill > > >> >has > > >> > > > > > taught me that he is very evasive and will do >almost > > >> >anything he > > >> > > > > > can to avoid having a meaningful discussion. Even > >break > > >>one > > >> >of > > >> > > > > > the Ten Commandments by bearing false witness. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > A list of a few of the false accusations Bill >Morgan > >has > > >> >made > > >> > > > > > against me and refuses to substantiate follows: > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 1. Having conducted "bigoted attacks on [him] and >[his] > > >> >wife" > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 2. Thinking he is "some evil wicked person out to > >destroy > > >> > > >society". > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 3. Thinking he is "wacked for beleiving in God". > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 4. "[P]ersonally insulting [him] on the level of a >name > > >> >calling > > >> > > > > > 2nd grader." > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 5. "[I]nsulting [his] wife and [him]. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 6. That my wife and I had labelled him and his wife >as > > >>evil. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 7. Calling him "very nasty names." > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 8. That I had told him "what [my] wife thought of >those > > >>who > > >> > > > > > beleive in Gid". > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 9. That I would think he and his wife "are evil and > > >>wicked, > > >> >the > > >> > > > > > world's most sinister people". > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 10. That I refuse to meet him because of his >beliefs. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 11. That I sent electronically "many nasty words >that > >were > > >> >anti > > >> > > > > > religious". > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Bill needs to either substantiate these accusations >or > > >>else > > >> > > > > > acknowledge that they are false and offer a most > >sincere > > >> >apology > > >> > > > > > to all parties for having made those accusations >and > > >> > >particularly > > >> > > > > > for having prevented the timely resolution of this > >matter. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > >> > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > >> > > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Share information about yourself, create your own >public > > >>profile > > >> >at > > >> > > > http://profiles.msn.com. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > >> > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > >> >http://www.hotmail.com. > > >> > > > > >> > >Share information about yourself, create your own public >profile > >at > > >> > >http://profiles.msn.com. > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > >> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > >> >http://www.hotmail.com. > > >> > > > >> > Share information about yourself, create your own public >profile at > > >> > http://profiles.msn.com. > > >> > > > >> > > > >>_________________________________________________________________________ > > >>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > >> > > >>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > > >>http://profiles.msn.com. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > > >http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-zc04.mx.aol.com (rly-zc04.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.4]) by air-zc01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Mon, 02 Oct 2000 15:49:20 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (f174.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.174]) by rly-zc04.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Mon, 02 Oct 2000 15:48:22 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:48:17 -0700 Received: from 164.45.101.11 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 02 Oct 2000 19:48:17 GMT X-Originating-IP: [164.45.101.11] From: "Bill Morgan" To: billbeq@mediaone.net, editor@liberator.net Cc: DWise1@aol.com Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 19:48:17 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Oct 2000 19:48:17.0829 (UTC) FILETIME=[B5D7D550:01C02CA9] ################################################ Subj: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? Date: 02-Oct-00 12:52:09 Pacific Daylight Time From: billbeq@mediaone.net (Bill Bequette) To: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan), editor@liberator.net CC: DWise1@aol.com File: Whatdodo.txt (53102 bytes) DL Time (TCP/IP): < 1 minute I bet I could cut hair good to buddee. If I practice. I notice after a few drinks I don't shake as much. BEt I could kut hair good then buddee! ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Morgan To: billbeq@mediaone.net ; editor@liberator.net Cc: DWise1@aol.com Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 12:48 PM Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? Since I have the big bucks I like going to Fantasitic Sam's getting a good wash, a good conversation, and usually a good cut. I tip well too. Hey, maybe you and Mr Wise and Mr Liberal can become friends....Wise...liberal....let Bill cut your hair for free as a token of friendship! >From: "Bill Bequette" >To: "Bill Morgan" , >CC: >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? >Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:39:28 -0700 > >Buddy, > Did you watch the game where the Lions played this weekend? Is >my team doing ok or should I add some more depth to my lineup? Oh I forgot >to mention that my wife cut my hair yesterday. We went and bought an >electric hair clipper set at Pic N Sav. It cost us only $12. What a deal >eh? Anyways she used the #2 spacer so I got a pretty short hair cut. The >kit had a video that showed how to cut hair. So we are gonna save a lot of >money over the next 30 years! She was all worried about cutting my hair. >But I said honey don't worry about it. It will grow back! That is the >nice thing about getting a haircut. If is stinks then the hair grows back. > Does your wife cut your hair? Or does she cut your daughters only. You >know I think it is better to get your hair cut at home. What do you think? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Morgan > To: billbeq@mediaone.net ; editor@liberator.net > Cc: DWise1@aol.com > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 12:26 PM > Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > Life is 10% situations and 90% how you deal with it. Many people choose >to > be miserable. One of my mottos Bill, is listen to miserable and grumpy > people, but don't let them make you miserable and grumpy. > > > >From: "Bill Bequette" > >To: "Bill Morgan" , > >CC: > >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > >Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 15:58:06 -0700 > > > >Well the historical evidence proves that Jesus was a real person where > >miracles occurred. If you don't want to believe and accept the fact >that > >the Lord loves you then that is your decision. But don't make false > >statements. It just makes you look bad. > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Bill Morgan > >To: editor@liberator.net ; billbeq@mediaone.net > > > >Cc: DWise1@aol.com > >Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000 3:22 PM > >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > > > > >Mark: why did you ignore my e mail which truthfully pointed out that >if > > >Jesus was a fake why would you hate something that is fake and spend >so > >much > > >time angry about it? > > > > > > > > >>From: "Mark" > > >>To: "Bill Morgan" , > > >>CC: > > >>Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > >>Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 08:20:48 -0500 > > >> > > >>Bill Morgan , you wrote: > > >> > > >>"When you know the truth you are happy." > > >> > > >>Were you happy to learn that your personal savior is a character in >a > > >>story? > > >> > > >>= ) > > >> > > >>Mark > > >>The Liberator > > >>E-Mail: editor@liberator.net > > >>Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > > >> > > >> > > >> >From: "Media One Mail" > > >> >To: "Bill Morgan" , > > >> >CC: > > >> >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > >> >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:59:47 -0700 > > >> > > > >> >Bill have you ever noticed how unhappy some people are? Why is >that? > > >>Bill > > >> >your real happy most the time! I think I know why!!!!! > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > > >> > From: Bill Morgan > > >> > To: editor@liberator.net ; plasma@worldnet.att.net > > >> > Cc: DWise1@aol.com > > >> > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 7:08 AM > > >> > Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > I don't know about hype about exercising, I have always >exercised. > >I > > >> >have > > >> > been busy watching the Olympics (really as back ground noise >while > > >>doing > > >> > other vital things). Do gymnasts hate their bodies? Oh the > >humanity! > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > >From: "Mark" > > >> > >To: "Bill Morgan" , > > > > >> > >CC: > > >> > >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > >> > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:16:24 -0500 > > >> > > > > >> > >Have you noticed all of this exorcism hype? First the Pope >tries > >to > > >> > >exorcise a woman but fails. Next a priest is trained as an > >exorcist. > > >> >Then > > >> > >the film The Exorcist will be re-released soon. Coincidence? > > >>Nah.... > > >> > > > > >> > >People love fiction. It's entertaining.... > > >> > > > > >> > >Mark > > >> > >The Liberator > > >> > >E-Mail: editor@liberator.net > > >> > >Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >----- Original Message ----- > > >> > >From: Bill Morgan > > >> > >To: ; > > >> > >Cc: > > >> > >Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:08 PM > > >> > >Subject: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >We will have a 6 foot long submarine sandwich and chips and >stuff. > > >> >Please > > >> > >bring a liter bottle of your choice. > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >From: "Mark" > > >> > > >To: > > >> > > >CC: , > > >> > > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which I >now > > >>offer > > >> >to > > >> > > >you > > >> > > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:52:56 -0500 > > >> > > > > > >> > > >If it's possible for fictional characters to love... > > >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > >> > > > From: .. > > >> > > > To: Bill Morgan ; DWise1@aol.com > > >> > > > Cc: editor@liberator.net > > >> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:50 AM > > >> > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense which >I > >now > > >> >offer > > >> > >to > > >> > > >you > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Break bread and become friends!!!! It is amazing what a >cup > >of > > >>pop > > >> >and > > >> > > >piece of pizza can accomplish! Jesus Loves You! > > >> > > > Bill > > >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > >> > > > From: Bill Morgan > > >> > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; DWise1@aol.com > > >> > > > Cc: editor@liberator.net > > >> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:56 PM > > >> > > > Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense >which I > > >>now > > >> > >offer > > >> > > >to you > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Bill, good point, I offered to meet Mr Wise for food >and > >drink > > >> >many > > >> > > >times > > >> > > > and have been rejected. You know how much I hate >typing. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Mr Wise, lets meet and eat! :) > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >From: "Bill Bequette" > > >> > > > >To: > > >> > > > >CC: , > > >> > > > >Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense >which > >I > > >>now > > >> > >offer > > >> > > >to > > >> > > > >you > > >> > > > >Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 16:27:55 -0700 > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > >Sorry, > > >> > > > >I didn't see the explanation below when I sent the >other > > >>email. > > >> > >Well > > >> > > >if > > >> > > > >Bill does not agree with your viewpoint or seems to >have > > >> >slandered > > >> > > >your > > >> > > > >name > > >> > > > >it may be because discussions about religion are a >very > > >> >emotional > > >> > > >topic and > > >> > > > >even if you were correct you could not ask him to > >relinquish > > >> >his > > >> > > >"lifes > > >> > > > >values". You may be asking him to relinquish >everything > >that > > >> >he > > >> > > >believes > > >> > > > >in > > >> > > > >i.e. his entire personality and vice versa. I don't > >believe > > >> >much > > >> > >is > > >> > > > >accomplished in discussing religion, or politics. >Neither > > >> >party > > >> > >will > > >> > > >ever > > >> > > > >agree with the other in most cases. I am not refuting > >that > >I > > >> > >believe > > >> > > >in > > >> > > > >God > > >> > > > >by the above or that you or Bill are correct(I just >don't > > >>have > > >> >the > > >> > > >time to > > >> > > > >review all your emails) just that some issues are >better > >left > > >> >alone > > >> > > >if the > > >> > > > >goal is to convert the other based on the discussion >at > >hand. > > >> > >Maybe > > >> > > >you > > >> > > > >should all get together and have a pizza and chill a > >little. > > >>I > > >> > >wish > > >> > > >you > > >> > > > >all > > >> > > > >well. Take Care, Bill B. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > >> > > > > > From: DWise1@aol.com [mailto:DWise1@aol.com] > > >> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 2:56 PM > > >> > > > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net > > >> > > > > > Cc: dwise1@aol.com; editor@liberator.net; > > >> >billyjack1@hotmail.com > > >> > > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense > >which > > >>I > > >> >now > > >> > > >offer to > > >> > > > > > you > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Bill B., I understand that Bill Morgan (Bill M.) is > >your > > >> >friend, > > >> > > > > > but I would hope that that friendship would not >prevent > > >>you > > >> >from > > >> > > > > > seeking the truth. I am not asking you to side >with me > > >> >against > > >> > > > > > your friend, but rather that you side with the >cause of > > >> > > > > > determining the truth of this matter. From my own > > >> > >fundamentalist > > >> > > > > > Christian training, I remember being taught that > > >>Christians > > >> >at > > >> > >to > > >> > > > > > serve the God of Truth, which Bill has echoed in >his > > >> >published > > >> > > > > > writings by telling proselytization trainees that >they > > >>serve > > >> > > > > > Truth. Unless fundamentalist Christian thought has > > >>changed > > >> > > > > > radically in the past few decades (besides the >heavy > > >> > > > > > politization), I would expect you to also want to >serve > > >> >Truth. > > >> > > > > > That is all that I ask, that you honor and apply >those > > >> >Christian > > >> > > >values. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > In order to serve Truth, the facts must be >examined. > >That > > >> >is > > >> > >why > > >> > > > > > I had CC:'d all those messages to you, so that you > >could > > >> >learn > > >> > > > > > something about what the situation here really is. > >That > > >>is > > >> >also > > >> > > > > > why I told you where you could find copies of the > > >> >correspondence > > >> > > > > > between Bill and me, so you could see for yourself >what > > >>had > > >> >been > > >> > > > > > said and what was going on. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Bill misled you to believe that this was a >disagreement > > >>over > > >> > > > > > world-views and that I was closing my eyes to the > >facts. > > >>I > > >> >am > > >> > > > > > truly sorry to have to tell you this, but Bill lied >to > > >>you. > > >> > > > > > World views had not had a chance to enter into the > > >> >discussion. > > >> > > > > > And I have steadfastly insisted that we examine the > >facts > > >> > >whereas > > >> > > > > > Bill has steadfastly refused to and is willfully > > >>preventing > > >> >our > > >> > > > > > examination of the facts. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > No, what the disagreement is over is that Bill has > > >> > > > > > libelled/slandered me and I am trying to resolve >that > > >> >matter. > > >> > >He > > >> > > > > > has made several false accusations against me, >saying > >that > > >>I > > >> >had > > >> > > > > > said or that I believe various horrible things. I >am > >sure > > >> >that > > >> > >I > > >> > > > > > had never said such things to Bill or about Bill in > >print. > > >> >I > > >> > > > > > have repeatedly asked Bill to substantiate his > > >>accusations, > > >> >at > > >> > > > > > the very least he needs to tell me what I had said, >as > > >>close > > >> >as > > >> > > > > > he can remember it. Bill steadfastly refuses. >Until > >he > > >> > >provides > > >> > > > > > that information, we cannot know which messages to > >examine > > >> >in > > >> > > > > > order to arrive at the truth. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > In order to arrive at the truth in this matter, we >need > >to > > >> > > > > > examine the facts, ie, what does Bill think I had >said > >and > > >> >what > > >> > > > > > had I actually written? I have repeatedly called >for > > >> > >examination > > >> > > > > > of the facts and Bill has steadfastly ignored those > > >> >requests. > > >> > > > > > Since I find it impossible to believe that he could > >have > > >> >missed > > >> > > > > > over 20 very clear requests (about 27 now, if we > >include > > >> > > > > > references to those requests), Bill must be >withholding > > >>his > > >> > > > > > information willfully. That would mean that Bill >is > > >> >willfully > > >> > > > > > opposing the Truth. Is that how a Christian is > >supposed > > >>to > > >> > > >behave? > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > As I said, I am not asking you to side with me >against > > >>Bill, > > >> >but > > >> > > > > > rather that you side with the Truth. I have just > >repeated > > >> >to > > >> > >you > > >> > > > > > what I see the situation as being. You can read >the > > >>actual > > >> > > > > > transcript to see whether I am being truthful or >Bill > >is. > > >> >Or > > >> > > > > > neither of us. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > In either case, we still need to resolve this >matter. > > >> > > > > > Unfortunately, Bill is being intransigent. We need > >help. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > The actual role that I would like you to take is to >try > >to > > >> > > > > > convince Bill to relinguish his information so that >we > >can > > >> > > > > > finally examine the facts. What does he think I >said > >to > > >> >insult > > >> > > > > > his wife? What "very nasty names" does he think I > >called > > >> >him? > > >> > > > > > At the end of this message, I will repeat the list >of > > >> > >accusations > > >> > > > > > Bill made against me; at least he confirmed that he >had > > >> >indeed > > >> > > > > > made those accusations. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > If you are unsuccessful in that endeavor, then at >least > > >>try > > >> >to > > >> > > > > > get Bill to explain to you why he refuses to >divulge > >that > > >> > > > > > information. Please remind him that if I had truly > >done > > >>the > > >> > > > > > things that he had accused me of, then we would >find > >them > > >> >right > > >> > > > > > there in the record. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Then if he refuses to give you that explanation, >please > > >>ask > > >> >he > > >> > > > > > why he is afraid to have the facts examined in this > >case. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Personally, I believe that Bill Morgan sees this >mess > >as > > >>one > > >> >big > > >> > > > > > "rabbit trail" that he wants to milk for all that >he > >can. > > >> >As > > >> > > > > > long as we are mired in this mess, we cannot have a > > >> >meaningful > > >> > > > > > discussion. About three years of correspondence >with > >Bill > > >> >has > > >> > > > > > taught me that he is very evasive and will do >almost > > >> >anything he > > >> > > > > > can to avoid having a meaningful discussion. Even > >break > > >>one > > >> >of > > >> > > > > > the Ten Commandments by bearing false witness. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > A list of a few of the false accusations Bill >Morgan > >has > > >> >made > > >> > > > > > against me and refuses to substantiate follows: > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 1. Having conducted "bigoted attacks on [him] and >[his] > > >> >wife" > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 2. Thinking he is "some evil wicked person out to > >destroy > > >> > > >society". > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 3. Thinking he is "wacked for beleiving in God". > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 4. "[P]ersonally insulting [him] on the level of a >name > > >> >calling > > >> > > > > > 2nd grader." > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 5. "[I]nsulting [his] wife and [him]. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 6. That my wife and I had labelled him and his wife >as > > >>evil. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 7. Calling him "very nasty names." > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 8. That I had told him "what [my] wife thought of >those > > >>who > > >> > > > > > beleive in Gid". > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 9. That I would think he and his wife "are evil and > > >>wicked, > > >> >the > > >> > > > > > world's most sinister people". > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 10. That I refuse to meet him because of his >beliefs. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 11. That I sent electronically "many nasty words >that > >were > > >> >anti > > >> > > > > > religious". > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Bill needs to either substantiate these accusations >or > > >>else > > >> > > > > > acknowledge that they are false and offer a most > >sincere > > >> >apology > > >> > > > > > to all parties for having made those accusations >and > > >> > >particularly > > >> > > > > > for having prevented the timely resolution of this > >matter. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > >> > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > >> > > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Share information about yourself, create your own >public > > >>profile > > >> >at > > >> > > > http://profiles.msn.com. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > >> > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > >> >http://www.hotmail.com. > > >> > > > > >> > >Share information about yourself, create your own public >profile > >at > > >> > >http://profiles.msn.com. > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > >> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > >> >http://www.hotmail.com. > > >> > > > >> > Share information about yourself, create your own public >profile at > > >> > http://profiles.msn.com. > > >> > > > >> > > > >>_________________________________________________________________________ > > >>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > >> > > >>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > > >>http://profiles.msn.com. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > > >http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-yc03.mx.aol.com (rly-yc03.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.35]) by air-yc04.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Mon, 02 Oct 2000 15:52:09 -0400 Received: from lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (lsmls01.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.20]) by rly-yc03.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Mon, 02 Oct 2000 15:51:15 -0400 Received: from gunsgalore (1Cust123.tnt1.huntington-beach2.ca.da.uu.net [63.17.32.123]) by lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA24411; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:51:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003b01c02ca9$b9d345e0$a921113f@com> From: "Bill Bequette" To: "Bill Morgan" , Cc: References: Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:48:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0038_01C02C6F.0C67DFE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 ################################################ Subj: Who names it the Butterfly? Butter don't fly Date: 02-Oct-00 13:02:34 Pacific Daylight Time From: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan) To: billbeq@mediaone.net, editor@liberator.net CC: DWise1@aol.com Have they accepted your generous offer to cut their hair? If they refuse Bill, you lose serious face and Bushido. >From: "Bill Bequette" >To: "Bill Morgan" , >CC: >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? >Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:48:22 -0700 > >I bet I could cut hair good to buddee. If I practice. I notice after a >few drinks I don't shake as much. BEt I could kut hair good then buddee! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Morgan > To: billbeq@mediaone.net ; editor@liberator.net > Cc: DWise1@aol.com > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 12:48 PM > Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > Since I have the big bucks I like going to Fantasitic Sam's getting a >good > wash, a good conversation, and usually a good cut. I tip well too. > > Hey, maybe you and Mr Wise and Mr Liberal can become > friends....Wise...liberal....let Bill cut your hair for free as a token >of > friendship! > > > >From: "Bill Bequette" > >To: "Bill Morgan" , > >CC: > >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > >Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:39:28 -0700 > > > >Buddy, > > Did you watch the game where the Lions played this weekend? > Is > >my team doing ok or should I add some more depth to my lineup? Oh I >forgot > >to mention that my wife cut my hair yesterday. We went and bought an > >electric hair clipper set at Pic N Sav. It cost us only $12. What a >deal > >eh? Anyways she used the #2 spacer so I got a pretty short hair cut. >The > >kit had a video that showed how to cut hair. So we are gonna save a >lot of > >money over the next 30 years! She was all worried about cutting my >hair. > >But I said honey don't worry about it. It will grow back! That is the > >nice thing about getting a haircut. If is stinks then the hair grows >back. > > Does your wife cut your hair? Or does she cut your daughters only. >You > >know I think it is better to get your hair cut at home. What do you >think? > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Bill Morgan > > To: billbeq@mediaone.net ; editor@liberator.net > > Cc: DWise1@aol.com > > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 12:26 PM > > Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > > > > Life is 10% situations and 90% how you deal with it. Many people >choose > >to > > be miserable. One of my mottos Bill, is listen to miserable and >grumpy > > people, but don't let them make you miserable and grumpy. > > > > > > >From: "Bill Bequette" > > >To: "Bill Morgan" , > > >CC: > > >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > >Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 15:58:06 -0700 > > > > > >Well the historical evidence proves that Jesus was a real person >where > > >miracles occurred. If you don't want to believe and accept the >fact > >that > > >the Lord loves you then that is your decision. But don't make >false > > >statements. It just makes you look bad. > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Bill Morgan > > >To: editor@liberator.net ; >billbeq@mediaone.net > > > > > >Cc: DWise1@aol.com > > >Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000 3:22 PM > > >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > > > > > > > >Mark: why did you ignore my e mail which truthfully pointed out >that > >if > > > >Jesus was a fake why would you hate something that is fake and >spend > >so > > >much > > > >time angry about it? > > > > > > > > > > > >>From: "Mark" > > > >>To: "Bill Morgan" , > > > > >>CC: > > > >>Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > >>Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 08:20:48 -0500 > > > >> > > > >>Bill Morgan , you wrote: > > > >> > > > >>"When you know the truth you are happy." > > > >> > > > >>Were you happy to learn that your personal savior is a character >in > >a > > > >>story? > > > >> > > > >>= ) > > > >> > > > >>Mark > > > >>The Liberator > > > >>E-Mail: editor@liberator.net > > > >>Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >From: "Media One Mail" > > > >> >To: "Bill Morgan" , > > > > >> >CC: > > > >> >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > >> >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:59:47 -0700 > > > >> > > > > >> >Bill have you ever noticed how unhappy some people are? Why >is > >that? > > > >>Bill > > > >> >your real happy most the time! I think I know why!!!!! > > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> > From: Bill Morgan > > > >> > To: editor@liberator.net ; plasma@worldnet.att.net > > > >> > Cc: DWise1@aol.com > > > >> > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 7:08 AM > > > >> > Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > I don't know about hype about exercising, I have always > >exercised. > > >I > > > >> >have > > > >> > been busy watching the Olympics (really as back ground >noise > >while > > > >>doing > > > >> > other vital things). Do gymnasts hate their bodies? Oh >the > > >humanity! > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >From: "Mark" > > > >> > >To: "Bill Morgan" , > > > > > > >> > >CC: > > > >> > >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > >> > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:16:24 -0500 > > > >> > > > > > >> > >Have you noticed all of this exorcism hype? First the >Pope > >tries > > >to > > > >> > >exorcise a woman but fails. Next a priest is trained as >an > > >exorcist. > > > >> >Then > > > >> > >the film The Exorcist will be re-released soon. >Coincidence? > > > >>Nah.... > > > >> > > > > > >> > >People love fiction. It's entertaining.... > > > >> > > > > > >> > >Mark > > > >> > >The Liberator > > > >> > >E-Mail: editor@liberator.net > > > >> > >Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >> > >From: Bill Morgan > > > >> > >To: ; > > > >> > >Cc: > > > >> > >Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:08 PM > > > >> > >Subject: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > >We will have a 6 foot long submarine sandwich and chips >and > >stuff. > > > >> >Please > > > >> > >bring a liter bottle of your choice. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > >From: "Mark" > > > >> > > >To: > > > >> > > >CC: , > > > >> > > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense >which I > >now > > > >>offer > > > >> >to > > > >> > > >you > > > >> > > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:52:56 -0500 > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >If it's possible for fictional characters to love... > > > >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> > > > From: .. > > > >> > > > To: Bill Morgan ; DWise1@aol.com > > > >> > > > Cc: editor@liberator.net > > > >> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:50 AM > > > >> > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense >which > >I > > >now > > > >> >offer > > > >> > >to > > > >> > > >you > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Break bread and become friends!!!! It is amazing what >a > >cup > > >of > > > >>pop > > > >> >and > > > >> > > >piece of pizza can accomplish! Jesus Loves You! > > > >> > > > Bill > > > >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> > > > From: Bill Morgan > > > >> > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; DWise1@aol.com > > > >> > > > Cc: editor@liberator.net > > > >> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:56 PM > > > >> > > > Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense > >which I > > > >>now > > > >> > >offer > > > >> > > >to you > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Bill, good point, I offered to meet Mr Wise for >food > >and > > >drink > > > >> >many > > > >> > > >times > > > >> > > > and have been rejected. You know how much I hate > >typing. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Mr Wise, lets meet and eat! :) > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > >From: "Bill Bequette" > > > >> > > > >To: > > > >> > > > >CC: , > > > > >> > > > >Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my >defense > >which > > >I > > > >>now > > > >> > >offer > > > >> > > >to > > > >> > > > >you > > > >> > > > >Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 16:27:55 -0700 > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > >Sorry, > > > >> > > > >I didn't see the explanation below when I sent the > >other > > > >>email. > > > >> > >Well > > > >> > > >if > > > >> > > > >Bill does not agree with your viewpoint or seems >to > >have > > > >> >slandered > > > >> > > >your > > > >> > > > >name > > > >> > > > >it may be because discussions about religion are a > >very > > > >> >emotional > > > >> > > >topic and > > > >> > > > >even if you were correct you could not ask him to > > >relinquish > > > >> >his > > > >> > > >"lifes > > > >> > > > >values". You may be asking him to relinquish > >everything > > >that > > > >> >he > > > >> > > >believes > > > >> > > > >in > > > >> > > > >i.e. his entire personality and vice versa. I >don't > > >believe > > > >> >much > > > >> > >is > > > >> > > > >accomplished in discussing religion, or politics. > >Neither > > > >> >party > > > >> > >will > > > >> > > >ever > > > >> > > > >agree with the other in most cases. I am not >refuting > > >that > > >I > > > >> > >believe > > > >> > > >in > > > >> > > > >God > > > >> > > > >by the above or that you or Bill are correct(I >just > >don't > > > >>have > > > >> >the > > > >> > > >time to > > > >> > > > >review all your emails) just that some issues are > >better > > >left > > > >> >alone > > > >> > > >if the > > > >> > > > >goal is to convert the other based on the >discussion > >at > > >hand. > > > >> > >Maybe > > > >> > > >you > > > >> > > > >should all get together and have a pizza and chill >a > > >little. > > > >>I > > > >> > >wish > > > >> > > >you > > > >> > > > >all > > > >> > > > >well. Take Care, Bill B. > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > >> > > > > > From: DWise1@aol.com [mailto:DWise1@aol.com] > > > >> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 2:56 PM > > > >> > > > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net > > > >> > > > > > Cc: dwise1@aol.com; editor@liberator.net; > > > >> >billyjack1@hotmail.com > > > >> > > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my >defense > > >which > > > >>I > > > >> >now > > > >> > > >offer to > > > >> > > > > > you > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Bill B., I understand that Bill Morgan (Bill >M.) is > > >your > > > >> >friend, > > > >> > > > > > but I would hope that that friendship would not > >prevent > > > >>you > > > >> >from > > > >> > > > > > seeking the truth. I am not asking you to side > >with me > > > >> >against > > > >> > > > > > your friend, but rather that you side with the > >cause of > > > >> > > > > > determining the truth of this matter. From my >own > > > >> > >fundamentalist > > > >> > > > > > Christian training, I remember being taught >that > > > >>Christians > > > >> >at > > > >> > >to > > > >> > > > > > serve the God of Truth, which Bill has echoed >in > >his > > > >> >published > > > >> > > > > > writings by telling proselytization trainees >that > >they > > > >>serve > > > >> > > > > > Truth. Unless fundamentalist Christian thought >has > > > >>changed > > > >> > > > > > radically in the past few decades (besides the > >heavy > > > >> > > > > > politization), I would expect you to also want >to > >serve > > > >> >Truth. > > > >> > > > > > That is all that I ask, that you honor and >apply > >those > > > >> >Christian > > > >> > > >values. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > In order to serve Truth, the facts must be > >examined. > > >That > > > >> >is > > > >> > >why > > > >> > > > > > I had CC:'d all those messages to you, so that >you > > >could > > > >> >learn > > > >> > > > > > something about what the situation here really >is. > > >That > > > >>is > > > >> >also > > > >> > > > > > why I told you where you could find copies of >the > > > >> >correspondence > > > >> > > > > > between Bill and me, so you could see for >yourself > >what > > > >>had > > > >> >been > > > >> > > > > > said and what was going on. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Bill misled you to believe that this was a > >disagreement > > > >>over > > > >> > > > > > world-views and that I was closing my eyes to >the > > >facts. > > > >>I > > > >> >am > > > >> > > > > > truly sorry to have to tell you this, but Bill >lied > >to > > > >>you. > > > >> > > > > > World views had not had a chance to enter into >the > > > >> >discussion. > > > >> > > > > > And I have steadfastly insisted that we examine >the > > >facts > > > >> > >whereas > > > >> > > > > > Bill has steadfastly refused to and is >willfully > > > >>preventing > > > >> >our > > > >> > > > > > examination of the facts. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > No, what the disagreement is over is that Bill >has > > > >> > > > > > libelled/slandered me and I am trying to >resolve > >that > > > >> >matter. > > > >> > >He > > > >> > > > > > has made several false accusations against me, > >saying > > >that > > > >>I > > > >> >had > > > >> > > > > > said or that I believe various horrible things. > I > >am > > >sure > > > >> >that > > > >> > >I > > > >> > > > > > had never said such things to Bill or about >Bill in > > >print. > > > >> >I > > > >> > > > > > have repeatedly asked Bill to substantiate his > > > >>accusations, > > > >> >at > > > >> > > > > > the very least he needs to tell me what I had >said, > >as > > > >>close > > > >> >as > > > >> > > > > > he can remember it. Bill steadfastly refuses. > >Until > > >he > > > >> > >provides > > > >> > > > > > that information, we cannot know which messages >to > > >examine > > > >> >in > > > >> > > > > > order to arrive at the truth. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > In order to arrive at the truth in this matter, >we > >need > > >to > > > >> > > > > > examine the facts, ie, what does Bill think I >had > >said > > >and > > > >> >what > > > >> > > > > > had I actually written? I have repeatedly >called > >for > > > >> > >examination > > > >> > > > > > of the facts and Bill has steadfastly ignored >those > > > >> >requests. > > > >> > > > > > Since I find it impossible to believe that he >could > > >have > > > >> >missed > > > >> > > > > > over 20 very clear requests (about 27 now, if >we > > >include > > > >> > > > > > references to those requests), Bill must be > >withholding > > > >>his > > > >> > > > > > information willfully. That would mean that >Bill > >is > > > >> >willfully > > > >> > > > > > opposing the Truth. Is that how a Christian is > > >supposed > > > >>to > > > >> > > >behave? > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > As I said, I am not asking you to side with me > >against > > > >>Bill, > > > >> >but > > > >> > > > > > rather that you side with the Truth. I have >just > > >repeated > > > >> >to > > > >> > >you > > > >> > > > > > what I see the situation as being. You can >read > >the > > > >>actual > > > >> > > > > > transcript to see whether I am being truthful >or > >Bill > > >is. > > > >> >Or > > > >> > > > > > neither of us. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > In either case, we still need to resolve this > >matter. > > > >> > > > > > Unfortunately, Bill is being intransigent. We >need > > >help. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > The actual role that I would like you to take >is to > >try > > >to > > > >> > > > > > convince Bill to relinguish his information so >that > >we > > >can > > > >> > > > > > finally examine the facts. What does he think >I > >said > > >to > > > >> >insult > > > >> > > > > > his wife? What "very nasty names" does he >think I > > >called > > > >> >him? > > > >> > > > > > At the end of this message, I will repeat the >list > >of > > > >> > >accusations > > > >> > > > > > Bill made against me; at least he confirmed >that he > >had > > > >> >indeed > > > >> > > > > > made those accusations. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > If you are unsuccessful in that endeavor, then >at > >least > > > >>try > > > >> >to > > > >> > > > > > get Bill to explain to you why he refuses to > >divulge > > >that > > > >> > > > > > information. Please remind him that if I had >truly > > >done > > > >>the > > > >> > > > > > things that he had accused me of, then we would > >find > > >them > > > >> >right > > > >> > > > > > there in the record. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Then if he refuses to give you that >explanation, > >please > > > >>ask > > > >> >he > > > >> > > > > > why he is afraid to have the facts examined in >this > > >case. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Personally, I believe that Bill Morgan sees >this > >mess > > >as > > > >>one > > > >> >big > > > >> > > > > > "rabbit trail" that he wants to milk for all >that > >he > > >can. > > > >> >As > > > >> > > > > > long as we are mired in this mess, we cannot >have a > > > >> >meaningful > > > >> > > > > > discussion. About three years of >correspondence > >with > > >Bill > > > >> >has > > > >> > > > > > taught me that he is very evasive and will do > >almost > > > >> >anything he > > > >> > > > > > can to avoid having a meaningful discussion. >Even > > >break > > > >>one > > > >> >of > > > >> > > > > > the Ten Commandments by bearing false witness. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > A list of a few of the false accusations Bill > >Morgan > > >has > > > >> >made > > > >> > > > > > against me and refuses to substantiate follows: > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 1. Having conducted "bigoted attacks on [him] >and > >[his] > > > >> >wife" > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 2. Thinking he is "some evil wicked person out >to > > >destroy > > > >> > > >society". > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 3. Thinking he is "wacked for beleiving in >God". > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 4. "[P]ersonally insulting [him] on the level >of a > >name > > > >> >calling > > > >> > > > > > 2nd grader." > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 5. "[I]nsulting [his] wife and [him]. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 6. That my wife and I had labelled him and his >wife > >as > > > >>evil. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 7. Calling him "very nasty names." > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 8. That I had told him "what [my] wife thought >of > >those > > > >>who > > > >> > > > > > beleive in Gid". > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 9. That I would think he and his wife "are evil >and > > > >>wicked, > > > >> >the > > > >> > > > > > world's most sinister people". > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 10. That I refuse to meet him because of his > >beliefs. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 11. That I sent electronically "many nasty >words > >that > > >were > > > >> >anti > > > >> > > > > > religious". > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Bill needs to either substantiate these >accusations > >or > > > >>else > > > >> > > > > > acknowledge that they are false and offer a >most > > >sincere > > > >> >apology > > > >> > > > > > to all parties for having made those >accusations > >and > > > >> > >particularly > > > >> > > > > > for having prevented the timely resolution of >this > > >matter. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > > >> > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > > >> > > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Share information about yourself, create your own > >public > > > >>profile > > > >> >at > > > >> > > > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > > >> > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > > >> >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > >> > > > > > >> > >Share information about yourself, create your own public > >profile > > >at > > > >> > >http://profiles.msn.com. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > > >> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > > >> >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > >> > > > > >> > Share information about yourself, create your own public > >profile at > > > >> > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > >>_________________________________________________________________________ > > > >>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > >> > > > >>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile >at > > > >>http://profiles.msn.com. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > > > > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile >at > > > >http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-zc05.mx.aol.com (rly-zc05.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.5]) by air-zc01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Mon, 02 Oct 2000 16:02:33 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (f263.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.240.40]) by rly-zc05.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Mon, 02 Oct 2000 16:01:37 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 13:01:37 -0700 Received: from 164.45.101.11 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 02 Oct 2000 20:01:36 GMT X-Originating-IP: [164.45.101.11] From: "Bill Morgan" To: billbeq@mediaone.net, editor@liberator.net Cc: DWise1@aol.com Subject: Who names it the Butterfly? Butter don't fly Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 20:01:36 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Oct 2000 20:01:37.0016 (UTC) FILETIME=[92321780:01C02CAB] ################################################ Subj: Re: Who names it the Butterfly? Butter don't fly Date: 02-Oct-00 13:07:17 Pacific Daylight Time From: billbeq@mediaone.net (Bill Bequette) To: billyjack1@hotmail.com (Bill Morgan), editor@liberator.net CC: DWise1@aol.com File: Whonames.txt (67730 bytes) DL Time (TCP/IP): < 1 minute I don't think they will accept because my haircuts make you so powerful. With my haircuts one feels revitalized and ready to eat tofu. No bushido lost from Paul. Do you think he ever lose his bushidos? I think not my friend from Buffalo. My brother sent me another monkey. No. wrong sorry. Actually it is a ape. I hope that helps. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Morgan To: billbeq@mediaone.net ; editor@liberator.net Cc: DWise1@aol.com Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 1:01 PM Subject: Who names it the Butterfly? Butter don't fly Have they accepted your generous offer to cut their hair? If they refuse Bill, you lose serious face and Bushido. >From: "Bill Bequette" >To: "Bill Morgan" , >CC: >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? >Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:48:22 -0700 > >I bet I could cut hair good to buddee. If I practice. I notice after a >few drinks I don't shake as much. BEt I could kut hair good then buddee! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Morgan > To: billbeq@mediaone.net ; editor@liberator.net > Cc: DWise1@aol.com > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 12:48 PM > Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > Since I have the big bucks I like going to Fantasitic Sam's getting a >good > wash, a good conversation, and usually a good cut. I tip well too. > > Hey, maybe you and Mr Wise and Mr Liberal can become > friends....Wise...liberal....let Bill cut your hair for free as a token >of > friendship! > > > >From: "Bill Bequette" > >To: "Bill Morgan" , > >CC: > >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > >Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:39:28 -0700 > > > >Buddy, > > Did you watch the game where the Lions played this weekend? > Is > >my team doing ok or should I add some more depth to my lineup? Oh I >forgot > >to mention that my wife cut my hair yesterday. We went and bought an > >electric hair clipper set at Pic N Sav. It cost us only $12. What a >deal > >eh? Anyways she used the #2 spacer so I got a pretty short hair cut. >The > >kit had a video that showed how to cut hair. So we are gonna save a >lot of > >money over the next 30 years! She was all worried about cutting my >hair. > >But I said honey don't worry about it. It will grow back! That is the > >nice thing about getting a haircut. If is stinks then the hair grows >back. > > Does your wife cut your hair? Or does she cut your daughters only. >You > >know I think it is better to get your hair cut at home. What do you >think? > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Bill Morgan > > To: billbeq@mediaone.net ; editor@liberator.net > > Cc: DWise1@aol.com > > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 12:26 PM > > Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > > > > Life is 10% situations and 90% how you deal with it. Many people >choose > >to > > be miserable. One of my mottos Bill, is listen to miserable and >grumpy > > people, but don't let them make you miserable and grumpy. > > > > > > >From: "Bill Bequette" > > >To: "Bill Morgan" , > > >CC: > > >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > >Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 15:58:06 -0700 > > > > > >Well the historical evidence proves that Jesus was a real person >where > > >miracles occurred. If you don't want to believe and accept the >fact > >that > > >the Lord loves you then that is your decision. But don't make >false > > >statements. It just makes you look bad. > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Bill Morgan > > >To: editor@liberator.net ; >billbeq@mediaone.net > > > > > >Cc: DWise1@aol.com > > >Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000 3:22 PM > > >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > > > > > > > >Mark: why did you ignore my e mail which truthfully pointed out >that > >if > > > >Jesus was a fake why would you hate something that is fake and >spend > >so > > >much > > > >time angry about it? > > > > > > > > > > > >>From: "Mark" > > > >>To: "Bill Morgan" , > > > > >>CC: > > > >>Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > >>Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 08:20:48 -0500 > > > >> > > > >>Bill Morgan , you wrote: > > > >> > > > >>"When you know the truth you are happy." > > > >> > > > >>Were you happy to learn that your personal savior is a character >in > >a > > > >>story? > > > >> > > > >>= ) > > > >> > > > >>Mark > > > >>The Liberator > > > >>E-Mail: editor@liberator.net > > > >>Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >From: "Media One Mail" > > > >> >To: "Bill Morgan" , > > > > >> >CC: > > > >> >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > >> >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:59:47 -0700 > > > >> > > > > >> >Bill have you ever noticed how unhappy some people are? Why >is > >that? > > > >>Bill > > > >> >your real happy most the time! I think I know why!!!!! > > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> > From: Bill Morgan > > > >> > To: editor@liberator.net ; plasma@worldnet.att.net > > > >> > Cc: DWise1@aol.com > > > >> > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 7:08 AM > > > >> > Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > I don't know about hype about exercising, I have always > >exercised. > > >I > > > >> >have > > > >> > been busy watching the Olympics (really as back ground >noise > >while > > > >>doing > > > >> > other vital things). Do gymnasts hate their bodies? Oh >the > > >humanity! > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >From: "Mark" > > > >> > >To: "Bill Morgan" , > > > > > > >> > >CC: > > > >> > >Subject: Re: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > >> > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:16:24 -0500 > > > >> > > > > > >> > >Have you noticed all of this exorcism hype? First the >Pope > >tries > > >to > > > >> > >exorcise a woman but fails. Next a priest is trained as >an > > >exorcist. > > > >> >Then > > > >> > >the film The Exorcist will be re-released soon. >Coincidence? > > > >>Nah.... > > > >> > > > > > >> > >People love fiction. It's entertaining.... > > > >> > > > > > >> > >Mark > > > >> > >The Liberator > > > >> > >E-Mail: editor@liberator.net > > > >> > >Web Site: http://liberator.net/ > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >> > >From: Bill Morgan > > > >> > >To: ; > > > >> > >Cc: > > > >> > >Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:08 PM > > > >> > >Subject: What do dogs have bad dreams about? > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > >We will have a 6 foot long submarine sandwich and chips >and > >stuff. > > > >> >Please > > > >> > >bring a liter bottle of your choice. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > >From: "Mark" > > > >> > > >To: > > > >> > > >CC: , > > > >> > > >Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense >which I > >now > > > >>offer > > > >> >to > > > >> > > >you > > > >> > > >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:52:56 -0500 > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >If it's possible for fictional characters to love... > > > >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> > > > From: .. > > > >> > > > To: Bill Morgan ; DWise1@aol.com > > > >> > > > Cc: editor@liberator.net > > > >> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:50 AM > > > >> > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense >which > >I > > >now > > > >> >offer > > > >> > >to > > > >> > > >you > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Break bread and become friends!!!! It is amazing what >a > >cup > > >of > > > >>pop > > > >> >and > > > >> > > >piece of pizza can accomplish! Jesus Loves You! > > > >> > > > Bill > > > >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> > > > From: Bill Morgan > > > >> > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net ; DWise1@aol.com > > > >> > > > Cc: editor@liberator.net > > > >> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:56 PM > > > >> > > > Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my defense > >which I > > > >>now > > > >> > >offer > > > >> > > >to you > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Bill, good point, I offered to meet Mr Wise for >food > >and > > >drink > > > >> >many > > > >> > > >times > > > >> > > > and have been rejected. You know how much I hate > >typing. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Mr Wise, lets meet and eat! :) > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > >From: "Bill Bequette" > > > >> > > > >To: > > > >> > > > >CC: , > > > > >> > > > >Subject: RE: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my >defense > >which > > >I > > > >>now > > > >> > >offer > > > >> > > >to > > > >> > > > >you > > > >> > > > >Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 16:27:55 -0700 > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > >Sorry, > > > >> > > > >I didn't see the explanation below when I sent the > >other > > > >>email. > > > >> > >Well > > > >> > > >if > > > >> > > > >Bill does not agree with your viewpoint or seems >to > >have > > > >> >slandered > > > >> > > >your > > > >> > > > >name > > > >> > > > >it may be because discussions about religion are a > >very > > > >> >emotional > > > >> > > >topic and > > > >> > > > >even if you were correct you could not ask him to > > >relinquish > > > >> >his > > > >> > > >"lifes > > > >> > > > >values". You may be asking him to relinquish > >everything > > >that > > > >> >he > > > >> > > >believes > > > >> > > > >in > > > >> > > > >i.e. his entire personality and vice versa. I >don't > > >believe > > > >> >much > > > >> > >is > > > >> > > > >accomplished in discussing religion, or politics. > >Neither > > > >> >party > > > >> > >will > > > >> > > >ever > > > >> > > > >agree with the other in most cases. I am not >refuting > > >that > > >I > > > >> > >believe > > > >> > > >in > > > >> > > > >God > > > >> > > > >by the above or that you or Bill are correct(I >just > >don't > > > >>have > > > >> >the > > > >> > > >time to > > > >> > > > >review all your emails) just that some issues are > >better > > >left > > > >> >alone > > > >> > > >if the > > > >> > > > >goal is to convert the other based on the >discussion > >at > > >hand. > > > >> > >Maybe > > > >> > > >you > > > >> > > > >should all get together and have a pizza and chill >a > > >little. > > > >>I > > > >> > >wish > > > >> > > >you > > > >> > > > >all > > > >> > > > >well. Take Care, Bill B. > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > >> > > > > > From: DWise1@aol.com [mailto:DWise1@aol.com] > > > >> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 2:56 PM > > > >> > > > > > To: plasma@worldnet.att.net > > > >> > > > > > Cc: dwise1@aol.com; editor@liberator.net; > > > >> >billyjack1@hotmail.com > > > >> > > > > > Subject: Re: Bretheren and Fathers, hear my >defense > > >which > > > >>I > > > >> >now > > > >> > > >offer to > > > >> > > > > > you > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Bill B., I understand that Bill Morgan (Bill >M.) is > > >your > > > >> >friend, > > > >> > > > > > but I would hope that that friendship would not > >prevent > > > >>you > > > >> >from > > > >> > > > > > seeking the truth. I am not asking you to side > >with me > > > >> >against > > > >> > > > > > your friend, but rather that you side with the > >cause of > > > >> > > > > > determining the truth of this matter. From my >own > > > >> > >fundamentalist > > > >> > > > > > Christian training, I remember being taught >that > > > >>Christians > > > >> >at > > > >> > >to > > > >> > > > > > serve the God of Truth, which Bill has echoed >in > >his > > > >> >published > > > >> > > > > > writings by telling proselytization trainees >that > >they > > > >>serve > > > >> > > > > > Truth. Unless fundamentalist Christian thought >has > > > >>changed > > > >> > > > > > radically in the past few decades (besides the > >heavy > > > >> > > > > > politization), I would expect you to also want >to > >serve > > > >> >Truth. > > > >> > > > > > That is all that I ask, that you honor and >apply > >those > > > >> >Christian > > > >> > > >values. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > In order to serve Truth, the facts must be > >examined. > > >That > > > >> >is > > > >> > >why > > > >> > > > > > I had CC:'d all those messages to you, so that >you > > >could > > > >> >learn > > > >> > > > > > something about what the situation here really >is. > > >That > > > >>is > > > >> >also > > > >> > > > > > why I told you where you could find copies of >the > > > >> >correspondence > > > >> > > > > > between Bill and me, so you could see for >yourself > >what > > > >>had > > > >> >been > > > >> > > > > > said and what was going on. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Bill misled you to believe that this was a > >disagreement > > > >>over > > > >> > > > > > world-views and that I was closing my eyes to >the > > >facts. > > > >>I > > > >> >am > > > >> > > > > > truly sorry to have to tell you this, but Bill >lied > >to > > > >>you. > > > >> > > > > > World views had not had a chance to enter into >the > > > >> >discussion. > > > >> > > > > > And I have steadfastly insisted that we examine >the > > >facts > > > >> > >whereas > > > >> > > > > > Bill has steadfastly refused to and is >willfully > > > >>preventing > > > >> >our > > > >> > > > > > examination of the facts. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > No, what the disagreement is over is that Bill >has > > > >> > > > > > libelled/slandered me and I am trying to >resolve > >that > > > >> >matter. > > > >> > >He > > > >> > > > > > has made several false accusations against me, > >saying > > >that > > > >>I > > > >> >had > > > >> > > > > > said or that I believe various horrible things. > I > >am > > >sure > > > >> >that > > > >> > >I > > > >> > > > > > had never said such things to Bill or about >Bill in > > >print. > > > >> >I > > > >> > > > > > have repeatedly asked Bill to substantiate his > > > >>accusations, > > > >> >at > > > >> > > > > > the very least he needs to tell me what I had >said, > >as > > > >>close > > > >> >as > > > >> > > > > > he can remember it. Bill steadfastly refuses. > >Until > > >he > > > >> > >provides > > > >> > > > > > that information, we cannot know which messages >to > > >examine > > > >> >in > > > >> > > > > > order to arrive at the truth. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > In order to arrive at the truth in this matter, >we > >need > > >to > > > >> > > > > > examine the facts, ie, what does Bill think I >had > >said > > >and > > > >> >what > > > >> > > > > > had I actually written? I have repeatedly >called > >for > > > >> > >examination > > > >> > > > > > of the facts and Bill has steadfastly ignored >those > > > >> >requests. > > > >> > > > > > Since I find it impossible to believe that he >could > > >have > > > >> >missed > > > >> > > > > > over 20 very clear requests (about 27 now, if >we > > >include > > > >> > > > > > references to those requests), Bill must be > >withholding > > > >>his > > > >> > > > > > information willfully. That would mean that >Bill > >is > > > >> >willfully > > > >> > > > > > opposing the Truth. Is that how a Christian is > > >supposed > > > >>to > > > >> > > >behave? > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > As I said, I am not asking you to side with me > >against > > > >>Bill, > > > >> >but > > > >> > > > > > rather that you side with the Truth. I have >just > > >repeated > > > >> >to > > > >> > >you > > > >> > > > > > what I see the situation as being. You can >read > >the > > > >>actual > > > >> > > > > > transcript to see whether I am being truthful >or > >Bill > > >is. > > > >> >Or > > > >> > > > > > neither of us. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > In either case, we still need to resolve this > >matter. > > > >> > > > > > Unfortunately, Bill is being intransigent. We >need > > >help. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > The actual role that I would like you to take >is to > >try > > >to > > > >> > > > > > convince Bill to relinguish his information so >that > >we > > >can > > > >> > > > > > finally examine the facts. What does he think >I > >said > > >to > > > >> >insult > > > >> > > > > > his wife? What "very nasty names" does he >think I > > >called > > > >> >him? > > > >> > > > > > At the end of this message, I will repeat the >list > >of > > > >> > >accusations > > > >> > > > > > Bill made against me; at least he confirmed >that he > >had > > > >> >indeed > > > >> > > > > > made those accusations. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > If you are unsuccessful in that endeavor, then >at > >least > > > >>try > > > >> >to > > > >> > > > > > get Bill to explain to you why he refuses to > >divulge > > >that > > > >> > > > > > information. Please remind him that if I had >truly > > >done > > > >>the > > > >> > > > > > things that he had accused me of, then we would > >find > > >them > > > >> >right > > > >> > > > > > there in the record. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Then if he refuses to give you that >explanation, > >please > > > >>ask > > > >> >he > > > >> > > > > > why he is afraid to have the facts examined in >this > > >case. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Personally, I believe that Bill Morgan sees >this > >mess > > >as > > > >>one > > > >> >big > > > >> > > > > > "rabbit trail" that he wants to milk for all >that > >he > > >can. > > > >> >As > > > >> > > > > > long as we are mired in this mess, we cannot >have a > > > >> >meaningful > > > >> > > > > > discussion. About three years of >correspondence > >with > > >Bill > > > >> >has > > > >> > > > > > taught me that he is very evasive and will do > >almost > > > >> >anything he > > > >> > > > > > can to avoid having a meaningful discussion. >Even > > >break > > > >>one > > > >> >of > > > >> > > > > > the Ten Commandments by bearing false witness. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > A list of a few of the false accusations Bill > >Morgan > > >has > > > >> >made > > > >> > > > > > against me and refuses to substantiate follows: > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 1. Having conducted "bigoted attacks on [him] >and > >[his] > > > >> >wife" > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 2. Thinking he is "some evil wicked person out >to > > >destroy > > > >> > > >society". > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 3. Thinking he is "wacked for beleiving in >God". > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 4. "[P]ersonally insulting [him] on the level >of a > >name > > > >> >calling > > > >> > > > > > 2nd grader." > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 5. "[I]nsulting [his] wife and [him]. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 6. That my wife and I had labelled him and his >wife > >as > > > >>evil. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 7. Calling him "very nasty names." > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 8. That I had told him "what [my] wife thought >of > >those > > > >>who > > > >> > > > > > beleive in Gid". > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 9. That I would think he and his wife "are evil >and > > > >>wicked, > > > >> >the > > > >> > > > > > world's most sinister people". > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 10. That I refuse to meet him because of his > >beliefs. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > 11. That I sent electronically "many nasty >words > >that > > >were > > > >> >anti > > > >> > > > > > religious". > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Bill needs to either substantiate these >accusations > >or > > > >>else > > > >> > > > > > acknowledge that they are false and offer a >most > > >sincere > > > >> >apology > > > >> > > > > > to all parties for having made those >accusations > >and > > > >> > >particularly > > > >> > > > > > for having prevented the timely resolution of >this > > >matter. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > > >> > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > > >> > > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Share information about yourself, create your own > >public > > > >>profile > > > >> >at > > > >> > > > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > > >> > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > > >> >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > >> > > > > > >> > >Share information about yourself, create your own public > >profile > > >at > > > >> > >http://profiles.msn.com. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > > >> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > > >> >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > >> > > > > >> > Share information about yourself, create your own public > >profile at > > > >> > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > >>_________________________________________________________________________ > > > >>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > >> > > > >>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile >at > > > >>http://profiles.msn.com. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > > > > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile >at > > > >http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-za04.mx.aol.com (rly-za04.mail.aol.com [172.31.36.100]) by air-za05.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Mon, 02 Oct 2000 16:07:17 -0400 Received: from lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (lsmls01.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.20]) by rly-za04.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Mon, 02 Oct 2000 16:06:10 -0400 Received: from gunsgalore (1Cust123.tnt1.huntington-beach2.ca.da.uu.net [63.17.32.123]) by lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA03411; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 13:05:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004401c02cab$d00397a0$a921113f@com> From: "Bill Bequette" To: "Bill Morgan" , Cc: References: Subject: Re: Who names it the Butterfly? Butter don't fly Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 13:03:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0041_01C02C71.22909080" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 ################################################